Dan Felice - Good Guy

If you don't mind. In the interest of future prospective buyers of Dan's who will be using this board to make a decision, is it your contention, after reading this thread, that Dan is a "good guy" and that people should not hesitate to buy from him?

"excellent communication before, during, and after the deal,..."

Was there no discussion about this thread throughout your communications? Surely Dan would have asked that you follow up with a "job well done" post. What was his excuse to you regarding the existence of negativity in his supposed "good guy" thtread? Since he won't speak up himself, perhaps you could help to lend closure to this mess. Thanks in advance.

Again against my better judgement...
Chris - I re-read the entire thread - all 170 posts to date. Of those posts 105 were from you or Rob Dunleavy, and doesn't include posts that Rob submitted under an alias that were removed by moderators. Now, many of those posts were your responses to people posting about you (28 posts), and I can see why you would want to defend yourself, but I do think that I can safely say that these were, for the most part, off topic. The thread, entitled "Dan Felice - Good Guy" was about my experience with Dan - other topics are, by definition, off topic. And lest you feel singled out, I felt that ALL of those posts back and forth between you and Jeff, Chris R, Wendy, Wes etc. were off topic, which is why I quit reading the thread.
Rob - I failed to find a way in which you contributed to the thread except to say, in essence "I believe what Chris has told me". Do you have any first hand knowledge of Dan and previous dealings to support the things that you allege? And why post under different names?
For both Chris and Rob - you may not like what Wes had to say, but he has a point. Especially in a forum like this, how you say things can be as important as what you say. The personal issues back and forth, the cross posting, posting under aliases - it all undermines your credibility, even if your message carries the truth. You clearly want people to believe you, to the extent of posting repeatedly about the issue, so let your actions support your words, not detract from them.
As far as the truth goes, I have no idea what the truth is in the matter of Dan and the hybrid cribos. I've heard your version, I've heard Dan's version, and there's been a lot of extraneous supposition along the way. The opportunity to PROVE that Dan hybridized the snakes and knowingly misrepresented them is probably long gone - it would require DNA testing of the parents and babies, and proof that the snakes being tested were in fact the snakes alleged to be involved. Until then, its your word against his, and people can interpret his silence as they wish.
The things that I do know to be true are that Dan treated me well, and that I'm happy with our interaction. For the record, Dan offered to replace the cribo that died for free (I pay shipping) PRIOR to this thread being started - and was, in fact, the impetus for the thread. I asked him to wait, because I was concerned about the other snake, which did in fact go on to die. Don't know why the snakes died - they were in the same room and similar rack environment as my other 50+ snakes, but they did. I've been a reptile hobbyist for more than 10 years, and this isn't the first time that I've had baby snakes just not do well - it happens - not often, but it does. When that happened, I asked Dan to honor the offer of a replacement, and offered to pay for another snake to pair them up, which he accepted - at a cost below what I've seen these snakes go for. Now Chris - I have a question for you. You said in one of your posts that had you been the seller, you would have replaced both snakes for free. Really? Eight and twelve weeks after I received them? If so, you have more generous terms than any seller I have seen on Fauna, KS, or individual websites. What do you produce, and do you have a website or ads containing your terms of service?
Let's for a moment stipulate that Chris is right. Dan Felice DID knowingly misrepresent hybrid cribos as Texans. Now what? Should I return my snakes and ask for a refund? Badmouth Dan on an internet forum? Picket his house with a sign? As I've said before, what goes around tends to come around - I'm not sure that I need to be the Karma Police on this one.
Both Chris and Rob have insinuated that Dan and I are somehow in collusion, or that he has put me up to posting my experience. I've spoken to Dan once on the phone prior to the sale, and several times by e-mail before, during, and after. Obviously we discussed this thread in the wake of everything, but he has never asked that I post (or not post, for that matter) about him, and honestly probably wishes I never had. Since I KNOW that Chris and Rob have jumped to conclusions about me, you can see how I might suspect they've jumped to conclusions elsewhere as well.
As for another buyer asking me about Dan, I would tell him honestly that Dan treated me well despite not all going smoothly. I would also tell him that there have been third party allegations of misleading buyers on the internet stemming from one incident a couple of years ago, but that to the best of my knowledge none of those buyers has actually surfaced.
Chris - I think you've made your point about what you believe to be true about Dan. Please restrain yourself from making assumptions about me. They detract from your credibility on other issues. I look forward to having civilized discussions on other topics elsewhere on the board.

-Lee McMurtry

Holy slippery snake scales batman, a short, succint and lucid post in this thread.

Is that allowed?

Well said Lee.

If those babies you got ever breed to eachother would not that have REAL good chances of producing some unusual babies if what kennard postulates is true? If they produced anything that did not appear to be pure Texan then it would lend credance to what he has said felice did.

It will be interesting to see just what comes out of them. Please let us know when and if you breed them together.

Wes Pollock

I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks for your great post!

Take care!

Billy Fraser

I would just like to entertain a few points you made in the interest of not boring you too much.

"The thread, entitled "Dan Felice - Good Guy" was about my experience with Dan - other topics are, by definition, off topic".

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one Lee. The fact that your thread turned into a "bad guy" thread doesn't make it off topic. The absence of my submissions to this thread would lead people to believe Dan honestly represents all of his animals. That's simply not true and people have a right to know.

"I felt that ALL of those posts back and forth between you and Jeff, Chris R, Wendy, Wes etc. were off topic, which is why I quit reading the thread".

Fair enough. I would agree that SOME of those posts were unnecessary. But would you not defend yourself against the venom brought here by a few of those you mentioned?

"you may not like what Wes had to say, but he has a point. Especially in a forum like this, how you say things can be as important as what you say".

You're right. I don't like what Wes has to say. It's funny how you guys accuse me of being like Wes and portray him as an innocent here. He is the most obnoxious and condescending troublemaker here. Of course that's just my opinion and doesn't sit well with the "regulars" here who can't see through his facade. No biggie.

"The personal issues back and forth, the cross posting, posting under aliases - it all undermines your credibility, even if your message carries the truth".

You guys just love throwing that "credibility" thing in my face as if I have none, lol. I beg to differ and the e-mails I've been getting suggest otherwise. You'd be suprised who the minority really is here. It isn't me.

"Now Chris - I have a question for you. You said in one of your posts that had you been the seller, you would have replaced both snakes for free. Really? Eight and twelve weeks after I received them"?

Really!

"I've heard your version, I've heard Dan's version,..."

I didn't know Dan had a version!!! What is it Lee! Let's put this to rest right now! Let's see if his "version" to you matches his versions to everyone or anyone else! Of course he doesn't want anyone to post his version to them because he knows he'll get caught in the lie. What say you Lee? What is Dan's story?

"Chris - I think you've made your point about what you believe to be true about Dan".

I don't "believe" anything to be true. I "KNOW" it to be true.

"They detract from your credibility on other issues. I look forward to having civilized discussions on other topics elsewhere on the board".

Fair enough guy! I know that since the appearance of certain people here that I have become abrasive and callous. My apologies. But I stand by my convictions.

"If those babies you got ever breed to eachother would not that have REAL good chances of producing some unusual babies if what kennard postulates is true? If they produced anything that did not appear to be pure Texan then it would lend credance to what he has said felice did.

It will be interesting to see just what comes out of them. Please let us know when and if you breed them together".

Wes Pollock

This is a testament to your lack of concern for facts or knowledge and your agenda here. Perhaps you should go back to the beginning of this thread and read Lee's first post where he says he got "Cribos" from Dan, not Texans. Nice try though. But I digress. It wouldn't matter what the offspring from those crosses look like. They will still be the product of crosses...period!

"It is true. Dan bred his "calico" Unicolor Cribo to an Eastern Indigo and sold them as Texas Indigos."

I guess I really shouldn't have taken you at your word, eh kennard. The above quote is from you.

I have it right in my signiture line that I may not be very smart and occsionally, not all the time like some here, I prove it.

The plain and simple is that if felice sold them as PURE anything and they start throwing out mutts your contentions will be proven.

This, as you obviously missed, was what I meant to convey.

I am curious..I actually gritted my teeth and managed to wade through this entire thread again earlier this evening.

Please let me preface this by saying I know none of the principals in this discussion in the slightest and have no strong opinions either way.

My question, after digesting this entire discourse is, are their any supporting statements or direct eveidence anywhere here that support the allegations made by Mr. Kennard? I am certainly not discounting his statements out of hand at all. This is not an attack on his credibility. I just have failed to find a second individual anywhere in this thread with first hand direct knowledge of this supposed situation with Mr. Felice.

I find it odd that in 36 pages of posts and over a two month time period no one else has stepped forward.

Please don't interpret this question as an attack or an invitation to attack, I just find it odd

BTW...if I missed something, please point it out.

""It is true. Dan bred his "calico" Unicolor Cribo to an Eastern Indigo and sold them as Texas Indigos."

That's what I said alright. What does that have to do with the fact that you just stuck your foot in your mouth because, once again, you stuck your nose where it doesn't belong without knowing relevant facts of the post in question.

"I guess I really shouldn't have taken you at your word, eh kennard. The above quote is from you".

I don't think anyone cares at this point whether or not you are or aren't taking my word for anything. I certainly could care less. But doesn't that sort of contradict your statements...

"Even though I do agree with you guys on this one as well as the albury one you seem to miss that time and time again. How can such clever guys as you and kennard keep missing that? Something got your dander up?

felice has dug himself a pretty deep hole here".

Wouldn't that be construed as "taking my word for it", lol?

"I have it right in my signiture line that I may not be very smart and occsionally, not all the time like some here, I prove it".

Was that a gift, lol? Normally I would take that ammo and run with it. Nah. Too easy. Thanks anyway!

"The plain and simple is that if felice sold them as PURE anything and they start throwing out mutts your contentions will be proven".

I think anyone with common sense knows I'm telling the truth, but okay. Have it your way. Who's got the offspring Wes??? How will anyone know?

"This, as you obviously missed, was what I meant to convey".

If that is so, than the true meaning of your post wasn't there for me to "miss" Wes. But good enough. I get the picture now.