Jungle Habitats: Alan Hall, the rest of the story

Randy,
Thank you for your prompt reply. However, you bring up some points that I would like to expand upon.

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First, I recommend AP cages because I own them, and I believe the company holds the benefit of the entire reptile community as their long term goals – I make no apologies for that. Secondly, people (including other moderators) can and do recommend other cage manufactures all the time. No one has ever been stifled or disciplined for doing so.

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Care to venture a reply as to how what you stated above was any different than what Jen professed over on the BC Forum. You have expressed your opinion on AP cages, Jen expressed her opinion on Jungle Habitats cages, and by doing so, it incurred your scrutiny, forcing you to apply your moderation powers to trace an IP, thereby giving you the matched IP addresses. What would have been the harm in merely emailing Jen(its included in her profile over on the BC Forums) and discreetly inquiring

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Minimally poetic and even less on point Carson. The only deception perpetrated here was the one by Alan Hall.

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Au contraire, my reference to deception was to your given disclaimer. Starting a message with "not to add fuel to the fire" was what I was making reference to in the use of that cliche.

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While you may not like the fact he’s was exposed, it is the only relevant issue on the table.

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I have no like or dislike for the fact that you feel you have exposed Alan for anything. His infractions that you brought here occurred on a website that you moderate, why not leave it there.
Alan was caught with his hand in the cookie jar on the 25th. Right behind the webslaves post, yours follows. Funny this incident occured on the website you moderate on the 22nd. Can you see where someone might construe your posting as adding fuel to a fire?

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You're right, it's farfetched. I doubt people cross the country often to see Alan's router. However, I’ll happily apologize when some reasonable proof is provided that in fact, "Jen" was in NC on Alan’s computer and felt the need to join the BCF and make one post.

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You know people cross the country to attend reptile shows. Who is to say that people don't cross the country to visit a friend who owns a business that they purchased cages from. Thats not too far fetched in my estimation.

BTW, its Charter Cable companies router, not Alan's. You performed the ip trace, I can't argue with your conclusions as to who posted from where. I am not attempting to muddy any water, Im just trying to offer a different viewpoint from yours that includes other scenarios of what could have happened. But in the end only you and possibly Alan know the whole truth of the matter. Unfortunately, by his own actions, he is unable to convey his side.

Best regards,

Carson Grindstaff

I have NEVER, and i mean NEVER posted there

As you may already know, someone using Alan's IP number created the user name "Jen" on the BCF and copied your/similar email to the profile my9seccondcamro@yahoo.com. It can be viewed here...

http://www.bobclark.com/bcforums/pop...isplay&id=3161

...I'm not "out to get" Alan, but something is very wrong here and it has merit. It's all the speculation that has gotten out of hand. Thank you again for clearing most of it up.

I could be wrong, though, and it COULD be Alan trying very hard to apear to be someone else,even going so far as to copy a profile, but why?

Yes Dave, it appears as though you could be wrong. As for why it was done, your guess is as good as mine...

-Randy May

You know i have had some time to think about this.....Mr.May why did you check the IP? I'm pissed that someone (maybe Alan) would use my stuff to post for me. But i feel really angry at the fact that if it was me posting that on the BC that i would have gotten this same kind of treatment. You can't even deny that because of the steps you have already taken. BUT, why couldn't you have emailed me about this first? You had to bring it out into the public. Which is your right, but what about me? Did you stop and think if this was made up how this is going to effect the "real" Jen's thoughts on the BC? I would have to say NO! So please do me a favor and get rid of my profile and whatever else on the BC.
Again i would like to thank you for your "kindness" that you showed!

I am not attempting to muddy any water, Im just trying to offer a different viewpoint from yours that includes other scenarios of what could have happened

Well Carson all of the other issues aside, we now know what didn't happen. Jen didn't post anything and yet someone has created a profile using her information and posted under her name - using Alan's IP.

Can you see where someone might construe your posting as adding fuel to a fire?

Yes, of course. The fact was, I had no intention posting the information here. But then the thread about Alan appeared on the front page (due to the Webslaves comment). Based on what I read - I posted what I felt was information that spoke to the some level of behavior already in that thread. I don’t hate Alan, I don’t want him ruined, and in fact I’ve rarely comment one way or another about him. But I’m not obligated to suppress anything for his behalf.

The reader can take it or leave it - that's what I mean by "fuel to the fire". The intent wasn’t to hurt Alan per se, only to share the incident as it happened, where appropriate.


-Randy May

But i feel really angry at the fact that if it was me posting that on the BC that i would have gotten this same kind of treatment.

Unless you had Alan's IP, that would not be the case. Your assertion is sometihng like

"If a criminal was using an assumed name and then found out to actually be someone wanted. Then the real person would be arrested too?"

No, of course not. Also I've banned 2 other names by Alan Hall on the BCF...this was the third.

As to why I checked the IP's, I've coved that a few pages back.

BUT, why couldn't you have emailed me about this first?

Because I knew Alan Hall's IP wrote the post. Why email someone who I knew did not write the post. You could have been a fake name, as much as a real one at that point.

Did you stop and think if this was made up how this is going to effect the "real" Jen's

Since I've made it clear and even clearer yet that my comments were -always- directed to Alan Hall...yes.

Again i would like to thank you for your "kindness" that you showed!

I'm sorry that you feel caught in the middle, but I didn't put you there. My comments here have always contained an open apology to the “real” Jen if those were her words. But I won’t apologize for doing my job or accept responsibility for what Alan did in your name.

-Randy May

Mr. May,
Can you see where i'm comming from? You checked the IP for what reason? You still have not answered that question.
The facts are i do have two of his cages and a third one on the way. I love them and wouldn't trade them for the world. And i would be more than happy to post that on your site under my "real" info. and my own free will.
I'm not defending his actions. Please do not think that i am. I am not asking for you to apologize (sp?) for his actions either. I'm just wondering why did you even check the IP? Can you please answer that?

I agree, he should answer it.

But I already had an answer the second the first person asked why he checked the IPs...and I think that answer is kind of obvious--he had already caught Alan creating multiple users, so ANY post about Alan was immediately suspect, especially a user who created an account JUST to post positive feedback. I can see why Alan ripped off your acct. info though--you ARE a satisfied customer. But I think we can all agree that it isn't his place to impersonate you to broadcast that. I don't think anyone was casting aspersions on your character, and for the most part any "aspersions" cast on Alan Hall are TRUE.

I agree with what your saying. I just want Mr. May to answer it. Even if it is pretty obvious why.

Can you see where i'm comming from?

While I have empathy with you to some degree, I think I’ve been very clear who was being addressed in my posts – Alan Hall.

You checked the IP for what reason?

Because of the recent number of trolls and “problem people” on the forum, we routinely check new members IP addresses against banned lists. We are unable to ban IP and IP classes (as is done here on Fauna) without a lot of work. So it’s my job to know who is on our forum. We keep very tight control over potential trouble on the BCF, checking this IP address was part of that control measure. While that may not be a popular or sinister enough answer, it is reality.

so ANY post about Alan was immediately suspect

Any post by a new member about a banned member will naturally get my attention. How can I be doing my job (however unpopular) is I glossed over that fact? If someone wants to rave about Alan’s cages, have at it…just not Alan using an assumed identity.

I don't think anyone was casting aspersions on your character,

Of course not...I've said so many times.

and for the most part any "aspersions" cast on Alan Hall are TRUE.

This is it in a nut shell...
• Alan stole the on-line identity of a customer and made posts under their name in a misguided effort to support his business.

While I can appreciate that Jen still support Alan (not the act necessarily), that’s really putting the horse before the carriage. In the course of doing my job I discovered his ruse and that’s unpopular with some people who like Alan or have business connections to him. But you really should take that up with him. No one made his do it and I won’t apologize for exposing it. There isn’t a single person on this thread that thinks the real Jen did anything wrong – so I must have made that clear during the course of my posts.

You have the facts, whether you care or not is up to you. I’m not on an Alan witch-hunt and I’m quite happy to let this issue lie right here for the readers to digest.

-Randy May

I'm not defending his actions. Please do not think that i am. I am not asking for you to apologize (sp?) for his actions either.

As i said before im not asking for you to apologize. And i thank you for answering my question. And as i said before i do love my cages. But that does not make what he did right. And i have already taken this up with Alan.




Thank you for your time. I have no ill feelings toward you or the Bc site. You must understand that i was upset....ok pissed off at the whole thing.


Davey on a side note.... Thank you for being the one who brought this to my attention. At lest someone was willing to see what i would have to say about all of this.