Rick Miller---proof?

We will agree to disagree. I believe had those been true hets he would have produced albinos (from 2 females) which males are going for 1200 and females around 1500. I'm sorry the math doesn't add up for. I do know though I would not trust your hets and would purchase else where.

This will actually be my last post on this. According to the majority posting on this thread it is ok for

me to buy hets from someone not well known, lets say 5 female albino hets and I trade them $2500 in snakes so I'm not really out money per say.

I then sell these het pieds to a "friend" for a reduced price (because even though I guarantee them as 100% I didn't produce them so I am not sure). They buy them for $1000 which is bargain basement price.

The guarantee is if they don't produce any albinos I will buy them back for the $1000 or $200 a snake.

Well they don't prove out now I win either way because. 1. they decide to keep the snakes after investing in them so I made $200 per normal female.
2. they return them and get reimbursed their $1000. Now I have 5 proven adult females that I can now sell for $350 each and I didn't have to spend a dime to raise them.

The best part is when they don't prove out I keep my good name and also get defended. Wow I have been looking at this side of business all wrong.

Mark you said ""Ron will honor his "guarantee" and buy the snakes back for the original 600 (the snakes are now worth more than that on their own, what nice guy)""

Mark do you comprehend what you write?? The snakes are worth more now! well dang that's good!!! He took a chance and bought on the cheep hoping to be lucky and produce visuals and make a bunch of money well if he spent a few more bucks and bought animals at the going rate say at TSE he'd even more out of luck and gee who would the two of you whine to then???

Ron made a more than fair offer and your buddy didn't take him up on it. By the way your buddy was here whining before the snakes were ever bred. Why was that? did he just learn something new about the breeder? Nope he knew the Hets were a risk and was asking to see if anyone have proved any out and when no one came forward he got his panties in a bunch and wanted money.

Hell I don't deal in Balls and was impressed by Ron showing himself to be a stand up guy in this deal. I don't know him and can't say as I'd heard of him till this thread started.

You don't like the way it turned out Mark well that's fine but when a bunch of other people here that have no association with Ron tell you that's the standard and your wrong maybe you should rethink your position. Randy

Gee My race horse didn't win me a million bucks I only paid 10 grand for him which was a deal!!! others were selling for 100 grand. I guess I better get the guy I bought him from to give me 990 thousand bucks because my horse didn't win it for me.. Now what I wrote is plains stupid but it's pretty much what you and your buddy expect from Ron. Randy

I just recently started getting back into this hobby after approximately a ten year break. I had to sell all my snakes when I joined the military. Now that I'm out of the Army and looking to start a new collection, I find myself extremely concerned with all the stories of deception and fraud.

I just read this entire thread, from page 1 to 37, and am glad to see a place where these con men can be revealed to others.

NO WHERE in this thread though did I see anything that suggested that Ron intentionally and maliciously defrauded his customers. From reading both sides of the story, I have no doubt in my mind that Ron fully explained that he had not bred the snakes in question. It seems that the entire thread drifted away from the real problem, Rick Miller.

I think that Ron displayed very high morals and integrity with his solution. He questioned other breeders who believed that his full refund in exchange for returning the snake was fair. He further realized that his customer, and friend, wasn't satisfied with this common interpretation of the guarantee. He then, in what I believe was an attempt to maintain high customer satisfaction, went against the norm and added a second option. He allowed the customer to keep the snakes, proven breeders, and gave him "store credit" on top of that.

Ron, I feel that this threat has done more to support you as a reliable source of reptiles. I will be starting out slow, but will definitely be checking out your animals as my collection grows.

Ryan

Originally Posted by slither75

NO WHERE in this thread though did I see anything that suggested that Ron intentionally and maliciously defrauded his customers. From reading both sides of the story, I have no doubt in my mind that Ron fully explained that he had not bred the snakes in question. It seems that the entire thread drifted away from the real problem, Rick Miller.

I think that Ron displayed very high morals and integrity with his solution. He questioned other breeders who believed that his full refund in exchange for returning the snake was fair. He further realized that his customer, and friend, wasn't satisfied with this common interpretation of the guarantee. He then, in what I believe was an attempt to maintain high customer satisfaction, went against the norm and added a second option. He allowed the customer to keep the snakes, proven breeders, and gave him "store credit" on top of that.

Ron, I feel that this threat has done more to support you as a reliable source of reptiles. I will be starting out slow, but will definitely be checking out your animals as my collection grows.

Excellent first post! I could not have interpreted it better.



Mark, I know you have been here today, I don't know if you are still reading this but I asked a direct question which you neglected to answer.

Originally Posted by Otter23

What if these were your "hets" and somehow, you confused one clutch with another (as humans we can all make mistakes), and they didn't prove out? Would you offer more than money back? What are your TOS on that?

Would you? Now I'll add another. What if you had bought some hets from a third party and had a cash crunch due to some unforeseen emergency and decided to dell those hets, with a full disclosure like Ron made? What would your TOS be then? If I sell you a used car on which I had bought an extended warranty, and the warranty company goes out of business after you buy the car, am I on the hook for any warranty repairs? Where does responsibility begin and end?

Originally Posted by Otter23

According to the majority posting on this thread it is ok for me to buy hets from someone not well known, lets say 5 female albino hets and I trade them $2500 in snakes so I'm not really out money per say.

I then sell these het pieds to a "friend" for a reduced price (because even though I guarantee them as 100% I didn't produce them so I am not sure). They buy them for $1000 which is bargain basement price.

The guarantee is if they don't produce any albinos I will buy them back for the $1000 or $200 a snake.

Well they don't prove out now I win either way because. 1. they decide to keep the snakes after investing in them so I made $200 per normal female.
2. they return them and get reimbursed their $1000. Now I have 5 proven adult females that I can now sell for $350 each and I didn't have to spend a dime to raise them.

The best part is when they don't prove out I keep my good name and also get defended. Wow I have been looking at this side of business all wrong.

Where is Al's responsibility? He knew the story. Why does he get a pass? C'mon! And again, if the hets that weren't hets had proven out, would Al have given Ron a morph because he had gotten such a good deal? Of course not.


It's one thing if Ron had sold these non-hets and had lied about them. But he was honest about where they came from. This was posted in 5/2005:

Originally Posted by herphobbyist

First off I never said since I got burnt I can burn Al. When I sold those to Al NOBODY had any idea Rick was scamming people. Al was aware I didn't produce them and that is why I sold them so cheap. My gaurantee was that if they don't produce I'll take them back. I AM standing 100% behind what I said. I NEVER said if they don't produce I'll reimburse an albino or 2 or better yet just send you a cheeck. I sold those animals with the understanding that I didn't produce and couldn't guarantee they were true hets... BUT that I'd stand behind them if they weren't. My guarantee is still good. Please DON'T assume because albinos weren't produced IT'S my fault. To ASSUME that makes an ass of u & me and I'm no ass. Now Al since I know you'll read this please tell me what you think my guarantee was? Ron Radloff

No one can guarantee genetics on something they didn't produce and that was all out in the open before money changed hands. Why is that all on Ron? Rick Miller is another story of course.

Ok now that i spent hours reading this thread it is clear to me that Ron is a stand up guy. Never one time with all the name calling and BS did Ron lower himself to do so. Ron has offered a fair settlement and if your looking for blood you should be looking for Mr Miller. Next time i need a snake i will look Ron up it's clear if there is any problems Ron will be there to fix it like a man.

Correction:

What if these were your "hets" and somehow, you confused one clutch with another (as humans we can all make mistakes), and they didn't prove out? Would you offer more than money back? What are your TOS on that?

was my post not Mark's. Sorry for the error.