Wise's rights?

I wanted to put this here rather than on the BOI thread, but anyway when Rich is threatening to ban respected members for bickering I think things have gone way to far.

Kevin, and Dave everybody respects your work, and effort. Dean I'm sure nobody truly believes you've done anything wrong. All the tension is understandable, but let's focus it in the right direction.

Also a couple people need to understand that not everybody is going to keep their legal action as a part of "this group". I've filed complaints with the fbi fraud division, and my local law enforcement but have chosen to keep it private until I know what's going to come of it. I know a couple more people have chosen to do the same. This doesn't mean that we don't care about this case, or better yet that we're not doing anything at all.

Originally Posted by Iraqvet

Well...I thought I would chime in on a few things...First,I do believe the names of people who the Wise's are talking about should be witheld from everyone except those mentioned..I mean the innocent people could have their name drug through the mudd if brought out publicly..Somtimes people dont read all the writing and could associate the name to someone who is bad,that could really be a good guy....But...All the other info,lies or not,should be put into the open...People cant build cases on secrets...So it should be posted..I would also like to point out somthing..I do not think Dean did anything wrong...If people said he made bids just to get the prices higher, they just aint thinking..How could anyone gaurantee that someone would absolutely bid higher then their "fake" bid??...He could have lost alot of $$$ doin that..I do not think he is guilty of doing that...I also dissagree with people saying we are fighting cause of the Wise's..While we kinda are,I think it also has to do with certain people showing their true colors now..I wont mention names,but there are some people on here I look at alot differently now...

Hey James,

Good to see you around. Solid post too One thing that I would like to reiterate in your post though. Some things I bid on just to donate, even if I didnt want the item (like Leopard Geckos). I am not a Gecko person, I am a snake guy. I donated to Willow getting her snake just so I could give more money to the cause.

Some items, I REALLY wanted but didnt win. For me, it was about the cause and that I had a means to help. The biggest difference is, had I won an item (whether I wanted it or not), I would have paid for it with no questions asked, including a 900.00 bid for a Sunglow baby I could have called Son of Sam. I am not justifying my bids as I dont think EVERYONE had a problem with me bidding. I only won two items, which I indeed paid for, that I really had no need for (T-shirts and Geckos).

Now, I am not saying that the product I received was bad or not what I was expecting, but I was doing it for the cause. I would have much rather win a couple of boas that I didnt then T-shirts and Geckos.

To this day, I still havent designed any T-shirts to be made for me although they are in the works (I think). I finally sent in some photos of some snakes so that they could work with them.

The Geckos were great too, but I wouldnt have considered them "rock bottom pricing" as they cost me 160.00 after shipping to receive them. I dont necessarily think that the donater of those geckos charged me 60.00 for shipping as all my funds were sent directly to Christina as well. She just told me thats how much the shipping was for them.

At the end of the day, I dont think people are "judging" me over me bidding on auctions. If they are, I dont see how that fact could construe me being involved since, as you can clearly see from Daves post of their PayPal acct, that I sent in my money blindly just like all of the others. People could consider my bidding as shilling but, its not like I bid on my own items. Did I bid on some items that I had no intent on winning, sure... but in my defense, I would have paid Christina for those items. I see nothing wrong with that (bidding and paying for what I won).

I also believe that it has become more of a personal thing for some people rather than based on actual evidence. The evidence being that I didnt receive a dime from the Wise's or for any of the auctions but one. The ONLY reason Christina did NOT receive payment for the one auction is that she owed me money for the shipping of my donated animal, no other reason.

If you check out the post of their actual PayPal acct, provided by DAND, and see where the money went out to, its obvious that NO ONE was involved in their little scheme, regardless of what they claim. Had they actually sent money to other people consistently, then I would suspect other people to be involved. Since no one received funds from them, for anything other than their shopping spree, their claim holds no merit.

Now, I wanted to clear things up so everyone knows. Did I bid on almost everything, absolutely and I had my reasons. Did I want to win everything, nope. Being that this was a fundraiser, I had no problems paying for anything, and everything I won. Does that make me an accessory, I dont see how as I wasnt bidding on my own items.

Originally Posted by shlages

I don't like someone saying that "they will overlook everything & if it's valid post it".The point of the BOI(correct me if I'm wrong) is for the community as a whole to see/read all evidence or claims by the offended & accused.And come to our own decisions..

That's exactly how I feel. And the BOI concept has worked well for years.
But perhaps, just like in politics, (and the world really does work this way) a group will arrange that those particular accused should not have to suffer through claims that have been deemed by them, and perhaps rightfully so, ridiculous from the getgo.

It saves the people, but dooms the system. And then, after time, a new group will emerge with new values, and the cycle begins again. Birth/death, good/bad, it is, what it is. Or can we break the cycle? I dunno........

Originally Posted by shlages

I haven't been on here in awhile.I checked in the other day & 1st found this discussion & quickly went & found the BOI on the Wise's.This is utterly disgusting what they have done.
DAND & ALL THAT HAVE GONE ABOVE & BEYOND---Thank you ALL for doing just that,going absolutely out of your way to help & try to make it easier on everyone else.I am extremely proud to be on the same forum with such TRUE stand up people!
Dean--- Don't worry about the ramblings of these 2 dispicable people( the Wise's)
One thing that I would like to say is irregardless if the chat was private or not,did it not 100% involve the BOI thread? Even with it being a surprise thing,does that not make the BOI a mute point?I don't like someone saying that "they will overlook everything & if it's valid post it".The point of the BOI(correct me if I'm wrong) is for the community as a whole to see/read all evidence or claims by the offended & accused.And come to our own decisions.
That being said if people involved in the chat were not willing to share said information on the topic then why even entertain listening to her?What or who made the 2 of you the "judges" of what should or shouldn't be released?I'm not trying to start this up or attack anybody,just wondering what makes some people feel that because they say so ,we all should just believe them.

I agree..I think alot of that should come out into the light..I think the people who were in chat said they were there to keep a line of communication open..I think it is a BOI matter..Like I said,bull pucky or not,people should know whats being said for their information towards court actions..I do not think it should be left up to TWO people to decide anything on here that involves DOZENS OF PEOPLE...

Originally Posted by dturner100

Also a couple people need to understand that not everybody is going to keep their legal action as a part of "this group". I've filed complaints with the fbi fraud division, and my local law enforcement but have chosen to keep it private until I know what's going to come of it. I know a couple more people have chosen to do the same. This doesn't mean that we don't care about this case, or better yet that we're not doing anything at all.

Dustin, I could not give you positive karma for this post but I owe you one. I think that this is actually happening more than anyone knows.

No offense to DAND as I have no doubts he is on the up and up. But Dave, this is exactly the same thinking I had when you kept going off on people about not filing and giving you the info. We, as a whole, are pretty private individuals.

You know I gave you my IC3 info as soon as you asked for it, but not everyone is going to think that its a neccessity for them to do. For some, its going to be a private matter like it is for me. I gave you my IC3 complaint number because there really is nothing you can do to harm my actual complaint against them (not saying that its what you are trying to achieve so please dont take it that way).

I chose to keep my police case number as well as my postal case number to myself, just because I am a private person and dont think that sharing that info is pertinent to my complaint. Ive made MANY complaints with many different agencies regarding the Wise's. Those were the choices I made and have no problems with my decision to do so. Should something negative come my way for doing so, I wish to bear the burden on my own regarding what I have done. But... I dont want to bear the burden of something that I have done if I didnt provide that specific agency my info.

I know I dont have to explain all of this but I just felt like maybe you will understand just a little bit more.

I've been following this thread and the Bad Guy thread fro the very beginning.

As far as I'm concerned the only RIGHTS these CRIMINALS have are as follows--

“You have the right to remain silent.

Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.

You have the right to an attorney.

If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed to you.

Do you understand these rights as they have been read to you?”

And now, in order to establish that you wish to remain silent, you HAVE TO SAY SO.

You can't just sit there and refuse to speak.

Just so you know, Christina and Jeffy!!

I agree....They should be made to come talk in the boi...They are saying somthing to certain people...Somthing that could potentially put them away alittle longer..Thats why I dont agree with only a couple people who may not know as much about the law as others,trying to decide whats being said and if its garbage or not..I understand its all lies,but they are not smart,so their lies could be of importance with getting their noose tighter...Who honestly cares if people rip them in the BOI..They need to take it cause they are the ones who commited the crime...They are just stringing this place along with what they are aloud to do now..Buying some time til they can scrape up enough money to move to another slum...Then we wont be able to find them..If they want to remain silent,they need to come up with a date to give the monies back..If not,they need to come here and get some of what they deserve before getting locked up..I dont think they are being quite cause they are ashamed..I think its becuase they are sittin there getting even more pleasure out of thinking they can keep stringing this place along..

As far as the chat goes... In my opinion... I don't believe the whole chat should be posted on here but at least those who were accused should be sent the screenshots so they could be used in the case! Isn't it "Whatever you Say CAN AND WILL be used against you in a court of law!" Well... she said it and it should be able to be used by those accused! Again... Just my opinion and apparently others as well! I just hope that the two of them get everything they deserve and that Maggie and Rick get restitution for what they were put through and are still going through!! I Love Fauna and I just hope that this community can pull together and get through this! All the effort that everyone has put forth for this cause is inspiring to say the least so lets all pull together and get it done!! Let's put those Criminals where they belong!!

Just my Opinion

Originally Posted by Iraqvet

I agree....They should be made to come talk in the boi...

How do you make them come talk on the BOI? They had plenty of time to do so and chose not to...after their initial confessions, anyhow. And seriously...what good would it do except to provide more entertainment?

They are saying somthing to certain people...Somthing that could potentially put them away alittle longer

I was in the crowd that thought the "chat" should have been posted publicly...but time and distance from the moment make me think differently now. While I still would read it if it were made available (because I'm an insatiably curious sort of soul)....I honestly believe it would make NO difference to the final outcome of their original crimes. It would be pure entertainment (and not particularly valuable or worthy entertainment at that).

They are "saying something to certain people"....? So what? They're probably spouting their mouths off to anyone who will listen, even as we continue to debate the issue here...none of it will ever come to light and none of it would matter if it did.

We're having a hard enough time getting the police to take the crime of THEFT and FRAUD seriously....why on earth would they care if little miss Christina said so-n-so was naughty?

...They are just stringing this place along with what they are aloud to do now..Buying some time til they can scrape up enough money to move to another slum...

I think at this point in the game, any "stringing along" is self-inflicted. To continue a debate about a minor issue that is past is pointless. Posting that info...whatever it may have been....won't hasten the process at all...it would just be more gum in the works.

Then we wont be able to find them..

Since when is it up to US to find them? It's up to us to provide the authorities with as much salient information as can be gathered...it's up to the authorities to find and prosecute them. And why give them that much credit to begin with? Do you really think they're smart enough to simply vanish without a trace? I think not.

If they want to remain silent,they need to come up with a date to give the monies back..If not,they need to come here and get some of what they deserve before getting locked up..

Again...how the heck would you propose to make them do any of that? It may be satisfying to type out what they SHOULD do....but how does that help? They've made it clear that they have no intention of doing anything remotely RIGHT about any of this. And what, exactly, do you think they will "get" here that they deserve? A tongue lashing? I think most of us have lashed pretty hard already....

I dont think they are being quite cause they are ashamed..I think its becuase they are sittin there getting even more pleasure out of thinking they can keep stringing this place along..

Maybe...so why add to that pleasure by reviving an argument that has pretty much died down and been gotten over by the parties involved?

My comment wasn't stating that the chat convo should be posted still.It was more the fact that I didn't like the fact that a jury of 2 people were going to entertain these two thieves in private & then bring any evidence if any to us... Who picked the people to listen? Who gives/gave them the allmighty power of DECIDING what was ok for us to read?
I don't care about reading the chat,my point being is I have my own eyes & brain & if ANY info is provided I may have my own things I see or question that others may not see themselves...
I understand it was a private chat & the people involved in that are allowed to do what they want,but,to mask it under the guise that "we wanted to keep lines of communication open" really reeks. They had an open forum to say what they wanted on the BOI!!! Rich (webslave) was kind enough to NOT BAN them (from the BOI @ least) for what they did so they COULD RESPOND. They chose not to.The point that she/they were being attacked is garbage too.They could have simply pulled an Ed Clark & responded to what they wanted on the BOI! Why would this "private chat" even have to happen?they had all the avenues they needed to tell us the same lies they told the people in the room.