pete perez, owner of Beyond the Web, how did you ship that sidewinder to adam?

Pete, I for one am glad you are willing to express your feelings about your wrong-doings. I really hope your feelings are legitamate, and there is nothing you have posted that makes me wary of your intentions. Not everyone will believe you are truly apologetic, and that is one of the prices to pay for the action you took. It is important that you focus on what YOU know to be true, which is the change within YOU. IF you have made this change, and are working to keep your business legitamate and trying your best, the change will be noted over the long haul. It's the long haul of your reputation that is really the important thing, not this latest tempest. It's just a very good thing that nobody WAS hurt by your action. Hopefully nobody will be in the future.

As far as having friends in law-enforcement. I, too, have sought legal advice from "friends in law enforcement" from something minor that I emailed Dennis Thomas over, to more extreme issues that I spoke with the husband of a fellow teacher over (he's a policeman).... It is not suspect to have friends in law enforcement, I have them! Sadly this last year I had reason to discuss issues with those friends... not over any wrong-doing on my part, but more specifically over a stupid decision my sister made. Speaking with my friends was just that... not something I expected my friends to go running to report a crime.

Pete, I hope you have changed. One of the biggest steps in that direction is to remain here on Fauna, be active, learn by what you see, realize that people are people the world over, and there will be all colors of the spectrum represented in the people here. Fauna is like a mini-university where an open person, willing to learn, can learn a great deal about human behaviour, and about what it takes to be one of the "Good Guys". If you've honestly made a change, don't let those who are doubtful affect your being here.

I'm going to chime in again here...(sorry)
A long time ago (1980's), I had some illegal animals in our state, and was caught with them. I lost a lot of friends, a lot of contacts, all due to a sort of youthfull arrogance that was all my fault. The event has also kept me on the fringes of the herpetocultural trade, in fact, decimated any plans I had for it being a business for me. Not that I am complaining...everything happens for a reason of some sort, and I must say that painting full time is just as much fun as keeping reptiles.
My wife bought a pair of kingsnakes last year, and we have a ball python now too...hopefully this year, I might get a tree monitor.

What I am trying to point out is, the damage that is done by keeping illegal animals is huge, and Pete has indeed done some serious wrecking to his business and hobby, but he has come forward, and in print admitted it...just as I had to back then.

I can no longer belong to any organizations, I lost my falconry license, all of my reptiles, at the time, it seemed like everything I cared for...I know what he is going through...not pleasant. Was it his fault? Yes. Will it be forgotten? Nope. The community has a looooonnnnnggg memory.

But, here we have two individuals who broke the law. One far slighter than the other. One has made amends, and will certainly pay the piper...the other is doing business on the AHA forum.
Pete, there are going to be some serious rough feedbacks from this...I couldn't take it and got out of the animal trade altogether...perhaps it is something you can weather out...I don't know.

But I am furious about Adam.

greg

Well pete, I'm glad you finally owned up to shipping that sidewinder. Well, I guess that's what you're appologizing for.

Let me give you some advice. It is well intentioned.

Stand up on your own. Don't whine and moan about how much you love your god and your family. Lots of us here have things we would hate to be without. Lots of us here are, apparently, more aware of the laws regarding reptile keeping than you are. Learn to listen to those who know more than you do. Sure, take it with a grain of salt, but listen.

Get rid of the pride that brought you down. It sure seems to me that you had a "holier than thou" attitute for a long time. It even had you posting lies, that you had to KNOW where lies in a couple of the threads you were involved in. It's GREAT to be proud of your animals and what you do with kids, but your arrogance got you in trouble.

People come here all the time that are VERY BIG FISH in the LITTLE PONDS they live in. When there is no one else that knows what you do, you feel really smart and important and you might BE the big fish in bakersfield. But, little homey, you ain't squat out here in the Big Bad.

Personally, I hope you don't go to jail. Personally, if you do, I'll shed no tears.

Ignorance is NOT an excuse. Personally, I think you knew when you shipped that snake that you shouldn't have.

Time will tell. I'm willing to give you that time, and some really nice 450 lb test brand new nylon rope. I figure about 50 feet of that stuff should be enough. Soon you'll either have a really cool knot to show us or you'll be hanging yourself/reputation.

Please don't whine anymore though. It makes what little sympathy I have for you congeal into a severe desire to give a swift hard kick in the a$$.

By the way, who did you use to ship that snake?

Originally Posted by cthulhu77

But I am furious about Adam. greg

One thing at a time there Greg. No one had forgotten adam as yet. Being fairly new to this board you have not yet seen the way it works in the long run.

Someone will pick up that ball very soon. It seem we're almost done with pete so adam is next.

In fact, adam I'm sure you're reading this. How was that sidewinder shipped to you?

Ignorance is no excuse. I also find it hard to believe that a person with such a backround in the industry who has a sidewinder in his posession, would have no clue that shipping the snake as he did may be illegal. If he really had no clue, that has to call into question his mental capacity.

Therefore my opinion is that
(A)He DID know that he may be skirting the law, and is just claiming
ignorance.
(B) He is not the sharpest tool in the drawer.

Originally Posted by Beyond the Web

Now look, I really want to this to be over. My intentions for that apology were and are good, I do have good friends in law enforcement as well, and my beliefs in Christ have lead me to admit my wrong and apologize for it. I know what the consequences may be, and I am prepared to have an officer inspect my place of business and my home. I had ONE sidewinder, I made the mistake of shipping it illegally and imported it to a state I now know cannot have venomous exotics. I should have researched before I made the mistake, I just wanted the venomous out of my hands. I did it unintentionally. I was unaware. I was ignorant of the law. My door is open to anyone for inspection because I have nothing to hide.

Now Pete are you slipping back into denial? You just said you "had ONE sidewinder", yet you posted in another thread something that contradicts this statement.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ad.php?t=59631

Quote: 12-19-2004, 03:16 AM
Originally Posted by Beyond the Web
I have a WC '04 C. cerastes (spelling?), I don't have a scale however, it was a healthy one at decent weight just by observation. Over the past 4 weeks it has refused all feeders, I am under the assumption it prefers lizards (no surprise there as it is WC), and just today, I noticed its health diminishing. He seems to be getting underweight, it will only strike but won't eat.

Quote: 12-19-2004, 11:43 AM
Originally Posted by Beyond the Web
I have a few others brumating w/o problems, I thought of just keeping this one warm along with a few other c.b. babies. He was caught early November in the Mojave Desert, and he only has 1 button on his rattle. I guess I'll have to cool him down and slowly start his brumation period.

I've been watching this thread for some time now. I think I'll chime in for just a minute or two...

Shipping venomous animals illegally seems to be a rampant problem in this business. That's not new. I've been around this business for over 30 years now, and it's been that way for as long as I've been around. Why? It's easier and cheaper. It's easy to just mislabel a package and send it off by Fedex or UPS or DHL or whatever...call it car parts or cookies or whatever. Who will know? Well, I guess this thread shows who can end up knowing. Everyone. Including the authorities. There are some serious legal implications here. There is a definite potential for jail time and a loss of rights. These are felonies.

It is hard work to keep up with what is legal and what isn't. You have to know which animals are restricted and in which states. You need to know if it's legal for you to ship this particular animal to this particular state. You need to be familiar with the Lacy Act, the ESA, CITES, and individual state restrictions. If you are going to be an animal dealer, that is your RESPONSIBILITY. You can't just say "He ordered it, it's his responsibility to know if it's legal where he lives." That's a cop-out and it WON'T keep you out of trouble. The laws of what you can ship and how are MUCH easier and much more straightforward. Everyone knows that it is illegal to ship a venomous snake via common carrier or USPS. If they do it anyway, they are knowingly breaking the law. I refuse to believe that anyone who has ever shipped animals anywhere is not aware of that fact. They may not feel that it is a serious infraction, and since "everone does it", it's no big deal. Guess what? It IS a big deal.

I remember back in the early 80's the USFWS set up a sting. They used a storefront and called it "Atlanta Wildlife Exchange". They had an Atlanta Zoo employee working for them (I won't include his name here), whom they had jammed up for some infraction regarding illegally selling and shipping wildlife. They offered him some "help" with his case if he helped them with the sting. For months they sent out pricelists and sold animals mail-order...some legal, some not. One of the things they were trying to nail people for was...guess what? Illegally shipping the animals. They tried to convince people to let them mail the snakes to them. If they were selling a rattlesnake, they would simply tape it's rattles with masking tape, bag it, stick it in a box and mail it. They sold protected species without Interstate Commerce Permits. Then one morning around 5:00 am, they started simultaneously breaking down doors and arresting people across the country. They caught a BUNCH of people, including some well known names.

But, guess what? These people, to a person, KNEW that what they were doing was illegal. They got busted. It can happen again.

Sometimes packages are damaged in shipment. It happens a lot, actually. When you ship a dangerously venomous animal in an unlabeled container through a carrier that is NOT EXPECTING venomous animals, you are unfairly exposing innocent people to a life-threatening danger. This Sidewinder that Pete shipped to Adam was not likely to kill someone if it bit them. Does that make it any better? Absolutely not. It can still cause considerable pain, time away from work, medical expenses, mental anguish...the list goes on.

I admire Pete for admitting what he did was wrong. However, he should not expect any sympathy from this community. What he did was another nail in our collective coffin. But, I think that because he can admit that he made a "mistake" (poor judgement call is a better description), apologize to the community and vow never to let it happen again, I think he has a chance to eventually prove himself and get back in the good graces. God and family ain't gonna help in this case, though...Pete has to earn it himself.

Adam is a different story. He has yet to admit that he's wrong, yet to apologize to the community, yet to vow he won't do it again. He seems proud of his status as a racist skinhead, proud of the fact that he is intolerant to people that are different from him...yet he expects this community to accept him for what he is and do business with him anyway. That's hypocritical, at the very least.

This community and specifically this forum is, in reality, here to deliver a certain form of justice. We don't have the power or authority to sentence people to jail terms or fines, but we can certainly determine (to a large degree) a person's future within the community. How the charged person reacts to and responds to the charges brought forth in here, in large part, determines his fate. In my opinion, Adam has sentenced HIMSELF to a lifetime banishment.

Let's try to keep this thread about pete.

adam has his own thread and may well have another real soon.

Originally Posted by TopShelfExotics

He just posted the following in another thread.....
Quote:

I appreciate my life, and my family too much to end up not being able to play with my 2 year old son or the ability to hold and kiss my wife.

I just hope for the sake of your 2 year old child & family that you are no where near as irresponsible with your venomous housing/safety as you are with your shipping practices. What if the delivery driver was injured and had a 2 year old of his own?

I'm glad you understand that you've done something wrong, but just be concious of the potential problems that could have occurred from your irresponsible act.

Originally Posted by DAND

Now Pete are you slipping back into denial? You just said you "had ONE sidewinder", yet you posted in another thread something that contradicts this statement.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ad.php?t=59631

Quote: 12-19-2004, 03:16 AM
Originally Posted by Beyond the Web
I have a WC '04 C. cerastes (spelling?), I don't have a scale however, it was a healthy one at decent weight just by observation. Over the past 4 weeks it has refused all feeders, I am under the assumption it prefers lizards (no surprise there as it is WC), and just today, I noticed its health diminishing. He seems to be getting underweight, it will only strike but won't eat.

Quote: 12-19-2004, 11:43 AM
Originally Posted by Beyond the Web
I have a few others brumating w/o problems, I thought of just keeping this one warm along with a few other c.b. babies. He was caught early November in the Mojave Desert, and he only has 1 button on his rattle. I guess I'll have to cool him down and slowly start his brumation period.

Well Pete, are you going to answer question above? If you are coming clean you should do it all the way.