Giant questions / musings ...

Stina,
What would make you think that the larger size in a subspecies of E. macularius would be a mutation or genetic defect???? They could have just evolved to be larger because of habitat/prey items availiable to them.... You are a smart girl but I think you look too much into things and trying to out science everyone, instead of looking at what is infront of you...... Sometimes people dig way past the simple answers.....

I did not say that it is definitely a defect....but it IS a mutation if it is caused by a single gene. A mutation is not necessarily a bad thing. I am looking at what is right in front of me....a morph caused by a single gene mutation that may or may not be detrimental to thier health. I do not have any experience with giants...but as far as I am aware is caused by a single gene, that mutated from normal at some point, somewhere. This isn't very complicated (if you've taken a genetics and a physiology class before anyway...)...the chances that there are no "side-effects" from a mutation that makes them larger than normal are slim, especially if you consider the physiology of the body and think about what the mutation might actually do physiologically to cause the final appearance.

Like I said, what make you think it is a single mutated gene???? Do you have anything at all to back this claim up???? Have you looked at a giant leos DNA lately???? LOL

Originally Posted by StinaUIUC

My only concern is that since giants seem to have a single gene mutation, that means that something isn't working right....or they would grow to normal size. The mutation could be a lot of different things such as nothing triggering the slowing of growth hormone release past puberty or the mechanism that stops most body parts from continueing to grow has stopped functioning. If it is something like the second one that could be a problem if some organs stop growing but the leo itself does not....for example if the heart stopped growing once it reached the appropriate size for a normal leo, no effects would be seen right away, but the heart would be stressed and overworked in a larger leo and it could possibly lead to an early death.

You bring up some excellent points. I think the giant trait may be polygenic which is why it's so hard to pin down. There is evidence of the scenarios you proposed happening with giants of other animal species. Until giant leos have been studied at length, we really can't know for sure what kind of underlying defects there are.

I think the giant trait may be polygenic which is why it's so hard to pin down.

Good point...if it is polygenic than it would have been an adaptation and not a single gene mutation (although caused by a group of mutations ) and would be much less likely to be detrimental.

There is evidence of the scenarios you proposed happening with giants of other animal species. Until giant leos have been studied at length, we really can't know for sure what kind of underlying defects there are.

So true! They haven't been around long enough to really know what's going on...but it can be helpful to hypothesize to get an idea.

Gregg...I'm going by what Tremper has claimed that the trait is caused by a co-dominant gene....if it is...its a MUTATION...I also said that it is a mutation IF it is caused by a single gene...meaning I don't know that it is for sure....I'm being hypothetical again!

oops...I meant to say "if it is polygenic than it would have been an adaptation (if found in a wild population/subspecies) and not....."

Oh, I see.... One thing though..... Dont go by what Tremper says.....LOL..... When they first came about he said they were recessive.....

Yeah I'm aware of that...I don't trust anything Tremper has to say (although I have no actual experience with him...). That's why I was being hypothetical and not saying that it absolutely IS a single gene trait...lol

they seem to be more docile , slower moving , and very laid back compared to ANY of my non-giant Leos . some dont seem to eat as much as my others but grow and put on weight just fine not sure if that means anything . for all we know albinos could go blind as they age too . they havent been around that long either .any of these genetic conditions could cause health problems in the long run . wouldnt you think ? after all they are genetic defects /mutations of their "normal" biological functions (this is just my thinking)

Wow Dan, our Giants are very different. I have about 10 Giants and one seems very calm and docile, this one grew to 90 grams in about 7 or 8 months....... maybe a super? My other Giants, are very robust and quite aggressive, I have actually been bit by some of them (They all range between 60 and 90 grams). Tremper also claims Giants are very calm and docile, but I find the opposite..... except for that one female. Maybe its the Supers that are calm and docile, while the regular Giants aren't? You think you have supers, right? Well maybe that's why yours are so calm.

Matt