Dav Kaufman - Beware

Originally Posted by Guy Castro

I see more posts like this in the future,with so many animals being sold with wrongly stated genetics!

A good post for the discussion forums. Genetic testing is getting more accurate and cheaper, so such testing might discern between bad luck and a scam.

The problem here IMHO, was and is Dav's avoidance of his financial responsibilities by trying to say he was merely a broker.

I agree with all the above comments. The middle man excuse is not an acceptable answer. He took the money and sold the snake as a leopard pied. Dav needs to make this right ASAP. It is almost unbelievable that someone in the right mind would think that they are not responsible for the genetic back up of an animal they sell on here. Furthermore I see Dav has advertisements up and could more than pay back Randy. I guess we will see if Mr. Kaufman is willing to throw away his reputation over this amount of money.

Whether Dav got it in a trade or was just the "middle man" it doesn't matter he was the seller in this situation. The snake came from his address. You only had contact with Dav and most importantly he was the one you sent the money to. He's the seller. he should be making it right. He should be trying to work with you first before going back to someone who is no longer breeding and seeing what they can do. He should take care of that on his time not yours. You purchased it from him not them. It's been two seasons he had plenty of time to prepare to make this right just in case it did not have leopard in it. He should have gone back last season to who ever he played "middle man" for to let them know the situation so that if didn't prove out a second season they could have been prepared to take care of the problem. He can at least text you and update you on the situation or try working out a deal that works for both of you like you did. there's many ways this could have been played out but staying in contact with the buyer is very important. Just a simple I haven't forgotten about you or I'm still working on it or anything letting you know he's making an effort. But it's been over a week since he's texted you. No update I understand the frustration

Not in any way am I being biased because I know Randy, but Im sure everyone on this forum has spent a few bucks more then what they wanted to, on things that we need or like to put into our projects. The fact that you pay top dollar for something and get what you don't pay for isn't right. Also being the middle man, you should always stand by your product no matter what. If it comes through you, its your responsibility to be a 100% on that animal. I also understand everybody gets busy and its hard to reply sometimes or you forget to which is normal but to take that long without a courtesy txt isn't fair. Hopefully he will make it right because he was the seller and it is the honest thing to do.

Originally Posted by homeya100

The buyer got multiple clutches that first season and did not produce a single pastel. So without question, I manned up... told them to keep/sell the original snake and also gave them another pastel "white" snake to replace the one that did not prove. Thats how I believe these sort of situations should be handled. I let them keep/sell the original one to make up for there lost clutches that they were banking on to have pastel in them. I think the deal that the OP offered to make up for it was MORE THAN FAIR on his behalf. Sad to see that people will throw their 20 year rep out the window over $1000...

*I wrote "white" snake instead of the exact morph to maintain anonymity of the project*

nice to see there are still good guys out there Adam. That's what I would do but didn't want to approach it like "if you were stand up you would just send me one of those and call it a day!" Brian Barczyk sold a buddy of mine a multigene male and it turned out to not have one of the genes that my buddy really wanted it for. Brian without haste, sent him I believe it was 3 snakes to make up for the confusion, lost time, and clutches and he kept the original snake. To me that's not only good business, that's being a good man. Everyone makes mistakes, realistically the way half these new combos get predicted is that they look like a little more than the pictures of the one without it look like. It happens, but what you do about it shows your level of self pride, actual respect for the animals, or your love of the money. I hear "broker" and that screams "I don't even care enough to buy the animal and flip it, I just want to get the money without getting my hands dirty." Why would anyone if they were told I did not produce this snake, have this snake, I am just the broker collecting a fee, not just go to the actual person who bred or has the snake? I tried coming up with a fair solution but it was shot down like I was ungrateful and unrealistic. Now I would not pay extra for a hatchling of something I had on my table for cheaper and way bigger. To me I feel either he should just refund them money to me and be done, or send me the killer clown girl on his dime and call it a day. Is that unreasonable? I am sure if I took it to small claims court I would get the cost of rats for 2 1/2 years out of it since it was not what it was suppose to be.....plus a days wages for missing work for court

Originally Posted by Lucille

A good post for the discussion forums. Genetic testing is getting more accurate and cheaper, so such testing might discern between bad luck and a scam.

The problem here IMHO, was and is Dav's avoidance of his financial responsibilities by trying to say he was merely a broker.

Hi Lucille,
I am not aware of any genetic testing that will determine what morph a snake is. The reason for this is that 1) we do not have the genome of many snakes, and those that we do have are generally not fully annotated, and 2) we therefore do not know the genomic location of the genes associated with specific traits, thus we cannot determine which allele of that gene is present in a snake.

So right now, you simply have to go with what the breeder says it is, and what you think it is. When traits might be subtle, I am always of the opinion that you buy the most obvious animal available. This might cost you more money, but in the end of the day, you have a website quality animal to show off the genetic potential.

What we can do with genetic testing is more related to phylogentics, phylogeography, and parentage. Of course, with a dominant, incomplete dominant, or poss het recessive breeding, you cannot tell if the offspring carries a given gene, only that a particular set of parents produced it.

Warren

fyi....I alerted Dav to this thread via text. And anyone who wants proof of the texts between us, I can send them to a moderator for confirmation that they were word for word. The screen shot shows his personal phone number and I do not think that is right posting it.

so here is the latest text between us
10:52 I texted
Fyi, there is a boi thread up about this, sorry it went there

10:53 he texted
All you had to do was give me a call to sort this out as I was willing to do. This is permanent now.

10:56 I texted
its been two weeks and I have sent messages. You told me in a text to go and post it.

10:59 he texted
It's all over now. I never told you to do anything but call me so we could work it out. You told me youd call me on your way to a show and didn't. I had something in mind that would have benefitted you. What happens now is your own doing


so wait....it was so beneficial to me that you had to tell me over the phone and couldn't have texted me when I asked 5 days ago what you had come up with? You made a big thing about 20 years you have been doing this and have backers....a bluff to shut people up with intimidation? What happens now? That's a threat! Anyone please tell me what I did wrong here? I really blew it now huh?! Wait....it's over....does that mean he is not going to do anything for his 10% broker fee portion he is responsible for?

Can't blame you Randy, keep it all in writing.

Originally Posted by Randy F

10:59 he texted
What happens now is your own doing

He is trying to blame YOU?

That is sleazy to the max.