Federal Register: Update to Lacey Act regarding Pythons, Boas, and Eunectes

Chris,

Alicia has a point. Large snakes are dangerous for people and the environment. Haven't you ever seen pictures of anacondas sliced open and human remains inside? I would have to agree that it's not the norm, but it has the potential to happen and that's enough. As far as impact on wildlife that's not even possible to start to measure it right now.

I think you may have missed my point. Please quote me where I said they aren't. Please re-read my post and read it a few more times and quote me where I said they aren't. I asked for information in response to

Originally Posted by snowgyre

Introduced snakes are a huge problem in Florida and other southern states that have a climate that can support them.

I'd like somebody to back up this statement. Do you have some data for me? Anything at all constructive? Or do you choose to pick apart my words and try to mock me? It's amazing how willing people are to turn on each other at the drop of a hat. I thought we were all supposed to be on the same side here?

Originally Posted by The BoidSmith

Chris,

Alicia has a point. Large snakes are dangerous for people and the environment. Haven't you ever seen pictures of anacondas sliced open and human remains inside? I would have to agree that it's not the norm, but it has the potential to happen and that's enough. As far as impact on wildlife that's not even possible to start to measure it right now.

I did see 1 picture with a burm sliced open with someone inside. I saw evidence that it was a hoax, and I saw supportive evidence as well. It was a wild snake though, not someone's pet.

This all supports a prejudice in what's acceptable and what's not as far as pets go. If we're going to ban a type of pet based on it's danger to humans, shouldn't the same numbers be used across the board? Lets compare pet snake caused fatalities to those of dogs, horses, and parakeets evenly. Lets compare how much native wildlife gets eaten by all types of pets including your furry little kitty that likes to go out at night and "roam". Take the number of native birds, lizards, mice, baby rabbits, etc, eaten by all the housecats in this nation and compare it to the burms in the everglades and give me an unbiased answer as to which is the bigger "problem".

By the way, I have nothing against dogs, horses, parakeets, or cats(accept for the ones who walk on my truck and leave footprints). I also don't own any big snakes.

Originally Posted by cahrens

I think you may have missed my point. Please quote me where I said they aren't. Please re-read my post and read it a few more times and quote me where I said they aren't. I asked for information in response to



I'd like somebody to back up this statement. Do you have some data for me? Anything at all constructive? Or do you choose to pick apart my words and try to mock me? It's amazing how willing people are to turn on each other at the drop of a hat. I thought we were all supposed to be on the same side here?

Have you even attempted to Google any of this?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...vespecies.html
http://www.southalley.com/snakes_exotic.html
http://www2.davidson.edu/jbtest/news00.aspx?newsid=5519
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science...ise/index.html - Link stating under a photo that gators might help limit the population
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,171358,00.html
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/Fish/southf...ewild2004.html
http://www.livescience.com/animals/0...ython_cat.html
http://www.wftv.com/news/3568404/detail.html
http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Publicatio...ilefeature.cfm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burmese_python ( mentions approximate numbers in everglades)


yeah, i think enough of those links gives me plenty of reason to believe that they are definitely damaging to the ecosystem in the Florida everglades, and the fact that one ISNT willing to believe it, or is even bothering to ask for proof ( when its a pretty dang well known fact) is really pushing it.

Large constrictors ARE potentially deadly. its not even an argument.

Thats not me saying that someone shouldnt be able to keep them, but you cant make a statement like " its not the snakes, its the keepers" when.. yes... yes it is the snakes as well. they are LARGE powerful animals, they are not "domestic" and they are not always predictable, no matter what one might think. All it takes is one simple error, one snake in a bad mood. regardless if its the "sweetest pet someone could ever meet" The fact is. they are. definitely potentially harmful.

Don't even get me started with the feral cats! But let's mention recent cases with wildlife. How many people were attacked (I don't remember how many deaths) by alligators alone last year? Those aren't introduced, they are just natives whose habitat has been shrinking due to the proximity of residential areas. The las I remember was the woman jogging...Now let's thing of a 15 feet burmese that might be hungry and waiting patiently for a prey. You probably saw the picture of the one ripped open with the alligator inside...woman jogging is eaten by alligator, large alligator is eaten by large burmese, large burmese doesn't run into any more alligators, and has to feed...what's it going to be...

Originally Posted by cahrens

This all supports a prejudice in what's acceptable and what's not as far as pets go. If we're going to ban a type of pet based on it's danger to humans, shouldn't the same numbers be used across the board? Lets compare pet snake caused fatalities to those of dogs, horses, and parakeets evenly. Lets compare how much native wildlife gets eaten by all types of pets including your furry little kitty that likes to go out at night and "roam".

First off. its not a BAN. It is "possible" ( they are asking for INFORMATION at this moment in time) legislation to stop the importation and transportation of said species.

Cats are damaging to the environment too, look at feral cat populations. 100% agree

Its human error, and sure, steps need to be taken to try to correct it. but of course, theres only so much you can do before you start infringing on peoples rights.

The only reason i even addressed what you said, was because what you said just was not 100% correct.

Originally Posted by Mooing Tricycle

Have you even attempted to Google any of this?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...vespecies.html
http://www.southalley.com/snakes_exotic.html
http://www2.davidson.edu/jbtest/news00.aspx?newsid=5519
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science...ise/index.html - Link stating under a photo that gators might help limit the population
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,171358,00.html
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/Fish/southf...ewild2004.html
http://www.livescience.com/animals/0...ython_cat.html
http://www.wftv.com/news/3568404/detail.html
http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Publicatio...ilefeature.cfm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burmese_python ( mentions approximate numbers in everglades)


yeah, i think enough of those links gives me plenty of reason to believe that they are definitely damaging to the ecosystem in the Florida everglades, and the fact that one ISNT willing to believe it, or is even bothering to ask for proof ( when its a pretty dang well known fact) is really pushing it.

Large constrictors ARE potentially deadly. its not even an argument.

Thats not me saying that someone shouldnt be able to keep them, but you cant make a statement like " its not the snakes, its the keepers" when.. yes... yes it is the snakes as well. they are LARGE powerful animals, they are not "domestic" and they are not always predictable, no matter what one might think. All it takes is one simple error, one snake in a bad mood. regardless if its the "sweetest pet someone could ever meet" The fact is. they are. definitely potentially harmful.

Okie dokie, here we go. I'll go link by link just for fun.
Link #1 Alligator eats Python 1 point for Florida
Link #2 Small amount of info about burms No points
Link #3 Radio transmitters implanted in snakes to track and record data which is to be used against them. 1 point for Florida
By the way, here's a quote from that article...
“At this point, we don't really know what they are doing or how much they threaten indigenous animals,” said Pittman. “An important current concern is how big snakes on roads affect traffic.”
Link #4 Gator eats Python 1 point for Florida
Link #5 Python eats gator and then explodes? That's laughable. I did see another show updating this story and it explained that the gator that was eaten was previously injured. Probably by another gator and the python was able to overcome it in it's weakened or already dead condition. Then, as we all know, when a snake eats a big meal it's somewhat lethargic. Another gator was able to easily kill the snake and feed upon it which explains the severe damage to the snake as well as it's MISSING HEAD! 1 point for Florida
Link #6 Gator eats python No points because I think it may be the same as the other story.
Link #7 1 Non-native species eats another No points
Link #8 Dead link
Link #9 Iguanas eat non-native vegetation 1 point for Florida
Here's a quote "To date, no one has documented these fast-growing omnivores' impact on native plants, but landscapers bemoan the loss of ornamental hibiscus and other flowers"
Link #10 Burm info No points

So according to my count here, Florida is kicking butt.
5-0

Please take this in the fun nature that it is intended. I'm just trying to show that once you cut through all the sensationalism the stories aren't nearly as exciting or newsworthy. Take link #7 for example. Would you even bother to take notice if it were titled "Non-native species eats another non-native species"? Once you add in "Python" and "Pet cat", now it's a story.

My deal with this is...The feds need to stay out of it. This is Florida's problem, Florida has known about this problem for years now and has already begun to implement ways to fix the problem. From what I can gather there are very few other places other than the Everglades in which a burm could survive, even less of a chance of them breeding anywhere other than in the Everglades. I live in MO and AR with 4 ball pythons...if I released them at anytime during the year, they would die within months...if not days during the colder months. To me this is just another aspect in which the federal government is stretching its hand a bit too far. That whole checks and balances thing that some very smart people came up with awhile back to control Federal and State power...you know it actually works if you let it!

The thing that upsets me the most is that this will not stop anything. IF this is a proposal to stop animals from destroying local floura and fauna and protect humans from dangerous animals what exactly does this proposal do to stop this? If person A bought a berm and now has decided that he/she doesn't want it or can't take care of it, are they going to drive across state lines to release it? No. If Person B has a snake escape, is that snake going to drive across state lines to live? Probably not. How does control on these animals from state to state fix this problem? It isn't. I think there are alterior motives in this proposal. Plus, the one state that has felt the largest impact from released exotics already has something in place.

I wonder what has been the impact of the ringneck pheasant (a Chinese species) on our native prairie fowl. But you know what? Nobody cares, and you know why? Because it's important for the economy (tourism) for certain states. The morale? We have to demonstrate that they are economically important in the pet trade in spite of a few "accidents" that might occur when they escape. The most important thing of all is create the awareness in people about the impact of non-local species (and I'm not restricting just to exotics) on the environment. The key is education.