NERD supports Voids and plays with them

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman

Karen, I am deeply disturbed that your cat appears to be on LSD. Since it is your cat and he appears on every single post you make, I have no choice but to believe you have drugged all your animals so you can take silly little pictures of them.

That is funny, Dennis. You were joking, right? No that's not my cat. I got that picture from another website. Okay everyone jump all over me and get off the subject at hand. I used a picture posted on a free website.

Let's get back to the subject of NERD freehandling hots with bystanders a few feet away. Where is everyone's outrage? Why aren't there tons of people jumping in and using all sorts of crude language? Now why is that? I know why (because NERD is a "big name")but I would like others' opinions on this as well.

Quote:


That is EXACTLY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN. There is no doubt in my mind at all that if pictures were posted of me or saying it was me doing the exact same thing, people would be all over it like white on rice. I'd be ostracized and have my gluteus maximus handed to me on a platter. But because it's a "big name" in the business people fall all over themselves to CONDONE it.

Cripes Karen.....all I was doing was trying to AVOID "handing ANYONE their gluteus maximus" without having proof. I would have said the same things whther it was NERD, you, or Joe Blow whose name was being splattered all over witrh nothing to support it. If you think that my trying to determine if the pics were genuinely of NERD or not before "ostracizing" them is wrong, I think YOU are the one that people should be feeling sorry for.

Copy and paste all you like......if I had been given ALL of the information NOW contained in this thread at the beginning instead of being told to "go find it myself" (which I could not find the pics on NERDs site, so I was questioning the original post even more) SOME of my replies would have been different. But I will ALWAYS believe that before making such serious accusations against someone, you better have proof or I WILL question it. I'm not someone who is just going to jump on someone's ass....ANYONE'S ass, be it a "big time breeder" or a name I've never heard before.....without PROOF.

What it all boils down to is this.........I never meant ANY of my posts to condone ANYTHING going on in those pictures, as I'm sure many others didn't either. But isn't it better to know for a FACT to to blame than just condemning someone who could have had nothing to do with it? You say "The truth is in the pictures".....but if I can't recognise Kevin or Kara by looking at them, how am I to know it is them?

Originally Posted by Cat_72

be it a "big time breeder" or a name I've never heard before.....without PROOF.

What it all boils down to is this.........I never meant ANY of my posts to condone ANYTHING going on in those pictures, as I'm sure many others didn't either. But isn't it better to know for a FACT to to blame than just condemning someone who could have had nothing to do with it? You say "The truth is in the pictures".....but if I can't recognise Kevin or Kara by looking at them, how am I to know it is them?

Then why, after Kara said it was them and you know 100% who it is, do you still condone what they did? Here's what you wrote to refresh your memory.

Originally Posted by Cat_72

Thanks so much for the clarification, Kara.

Now if this youngster would have just come to you and asked, I think this whole nasty thread could have been avoided.....I'm sorry you even had to deal with it.

and

Originally Posted by Cat_72

I think we're ALL waiting......and I think you owe Kara an apology as well.

and then Rebel Dragons condoned it as well here

Originally Posted by RebelDdragons

Anywho.................... I also believe you need to apologize to Kara.

I guess you forgot that NERD freehanded hots a few feet from bystanders. You only start harping on how you are deeply disturbed by it because others spoke out about you condoning it. Again condoning means to excuse which is what your post to Kara did: ("THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE CLARIFICATION, KARA)

Well I must say, this is not surprising that NERD will not post. What are you afraid of Kara? The truth? Oh and BTW I did get my hands on the list of who gave me feed back and I must say, some people confuse me.....

I'm not going to argue about my intentions here any more.....no matter what I say, it seems some people are going to see what they WANT to see, read into it what they want to read into it. Perhaps I too could have worded some things differently, not to mention that posts were being posted at the same time people were typing theirs, so things were missed and actually posted rather "out of order", if you will....but it is all a moot point.

Regardless.......I will re-state once again, now that I know for a fact what actually was going on in those photos, I would really like to hear what Kevin and Kara have to say about it. What they were doing WAS reckless and irresponsible, and I think they have some 'splaining to do.

Also on a side note... I have sent and Email and PM to NERD asking them to answer questions here, yet I still doubt they will. Right now it seems they are using ostrich tactics.

Originally Posted by Ken Harbart

Last and only reminder to keep it on topic and civil, folks. I've already issued a couple warnings to participants in this thread, and don't really look forward to having to issue out more (to include possible suspensions) in the morning.

Out of curriosity Ken, what are your thoughts on this particular NERD event? I know you and Kara are extremely close friends. I'm not asking with a "told ya so" attitude. I am asking because I am truely concerned that this kinda thing is going on and maybe you as someone whe would actually listen to could say "Hey Kara and Kevin, wtf were you thinking?" I am reasonably sure that this thread will cause them to be more careful of what is photographed and posted on their own site but I don't think it alone will convince them that they are not acting as very good representatives for our hobby.

Secondly, Why aren't you deeply disturbed by (very) young children touching a cobra?


Because, not only was I not there, I don't know the entire situation and if parents were informed or not. I don't know if the kids were the original posters children (and he has a working knowledge of voids).

Ian - stop apologizing for NERD...

For one thing, David didn't "steal" anything. It was a free public use forum. The worst thing that he's guilty of is not citing his source. There are pictures that people use as avatars and such ALL over the net. It may be slightly rude, but it's hardly illegal.

The fact that this was done by people you consider friends is obviously clouding the issue with you. Take a step back, forget it's Kevin, and LOOK at what's being presented. It doesn't matter whether or not the parents knew they were voids. Do the parents have a full understanding about voids? Do they understand how the procedure works? Or that it's only rarely done by an actual liscenced veterinarian?
But that would all be completely beside the point because voids simply shouldn't be handled like that at all. Furhtermore they certainly shouldn't be showboated as completely safe versions of the worlds most deadly reptiles, especially to children.


Sometimes people make poor choices. Everyone makes mistakes ... even the biggest names in the industry are still just normal people like everyone else. They screwed up, I hope this doesn't happen again, and I'd like to see more clarification about this, from them.

If you want a quick answer, you may want to call them. They are busy people.

You're making excuses for them. If they're really "too busy" to respond to this public relations nightmare, I'd have to wonder why not.

I have one more question for NERD.

What was there to gain by allowing hands on with hots?

I have tried to look at this in every why I could but the reason I always end up with it this

We are NERD and we do what we want, and we can handle hots see how cool we are.

Originally Posted by IanV

This thread could be 4 pages long easily, and contain all the relevant information needed.

Then why add to it as you are if that is the case?

Originally Posted by IanV

The pictures were stolen, then that was apologized for, lets move on.

Stolen no public forum and fair use laws for photographs cover the idea of criticism and review. Given the public posting on a free website prior to this, there's no legal basis for reprecussions for his use of them. And it was stated they were from NERDS forum so everyone was keen to this fact.

Originally Posted by IanV

The pictures were removed from the website by the original poster. It does not look like any mod or admin removed them.

Are you a moderator or an administrator of that forum? If not please explain how you know they were not removed by a moderator or administrator seeing that if you are neither you can't view the logs for the site. Or do you have a crystal ball you can tell such things with?

Originally Posted by IanV

Should this have been handled differently? Yes. I not only look up to and respect both Kevin and Kara, they are both great people whom I have enjoyed all my dealings with, but I was a little disturbed that kids were allowed to touch the snakes, void or not.

At least you were "A Little Disturbed". Quite frankly you should have been more than a LITTLE disturbed.

Originally Posted by IanV

But, if the parents were there and knew that the snakes were voided, and then OK'd it, that is more of the parents problem than NERDS.

And would you be willing to bet these parents don't know the fact that a venomoid can in some cases regenerate and become venomous again. I bet not. They were quite possible not as informed as you think they were.

Originally Posted by IanV

But I guess I am just an arse kisser, groupie and everything else applied to members of the NERD and BCF forums.

You said it I didn't. And we will leave it at that.