Holland Inciti of Color Creations- BAD GUY

Again, you did not confirm with her when would be good to ship. She did not tell you when she would be home to accept the package. That is not a good thing to do.

Ship when it is SAFE means just that.....when it is safe. Not when it is "most favorable". And if you aren't willing to hold animals for 2 weeks or however long it takes to make sure they survive the trip, not only is that poor business, but it tells everyone that you care more about making your money than the well-being of the animals. You are willing to kill an animal for a "measly" $150, huh?

It's sad to see someone so young start out that way.

Originally Posted by pepperquill1

Hi,
I had 5.5 pahntasticus.The last pair was sold a couple hours after she bought hers.I did not have any on hand after it was called DOA.I did not brake my own terms at all.I said I will guarentee live arrival the terms are broken if the temp is under 50 and they were.I said that before I checked the temps.Ship when its safe means ship when it is most favorable.I shipped when it was.I looked at the forecast and it was going to be under 50 for weeks to come.I am not going to hold animals for over two weeks without knowing when temps will clear up.If I did that I would still be holding them.She blew this out of proportion because she didn't get her way.It is not the money at all it was a measly $150.We can debate who's right and who's wrong for the next year and we will get nowhere.She got her refund,I learned to cover up all my holes in the TOS and the website is going to be updated in the next day or two.I had no idea that they would some DOA I shipped alot of geckos that week and most arrived safely where temps where below 50.We all make mistakes we are all human.

You have said a couple of times now, "most" of the others you shipped that same week made it.....how many more of them died?

Originally Posted by pepperquill1

Sorry it took me so long to reply to this I don't use Fauna and have no idea how it works.

A good place to start would be the RULES stickied at the top. Your posts are in jeapordy of being deleted unless your full name is added. You can do this by replacing your business name with your name through the user CP or adding it to your signature. Your posts will be deleted with anything short of that.

Well Holland, first things first. She clearly stated to ship when it was safe. This does not mean when it is most convenient for you. I have customers that have purchased animals in the winter and it is too cold to ship but I don't just go ahead and ship. I discuss it with the person and hold onto the animals for them until it is safe to ship. I have kept animals for upwards of a month and half because temps were not safe to ship . If you can't afford to hold onto an animal after it is paid for to wait for suitable temps than you really should not be selling in the winter at all. Heck the same thing goes for the summer time. If it is too hot I will hold the animals until it is cool enough to ship. YOU violated your own TOS by knowingly shipping when the temps were below your own stated TOS. Now if she had stated that she did not care about the temps and wanted you to ship anyway that would negate any live arrival guarantee, but not in this case. You owed her a refund and not the run around.

Now onto our deal.....You must not have a good recollection of what happened. You purchased the Gravid female Rudis at the Tampa show. First off you called me on the Sat night of the show after spending allot of time with me asking questions about them (which is a good thing to do when you do not know about them). When you called you asked me to please hold the one female until 9:30 the next morning when you would be arriving. I informed you that we normally do not hold animals without a deposit but if you guaranteed me that you would be there by 9:30 I would hold that animal for you. Well time came and went that you were supposed to be there to pick it up and you were not there so I ended up selling that animal to someone else. I still had another female showing Gravid signs. When you finally arrived you were not happy that I had sold the other one but decided upon the one I had. Then after a bit of time had passed (approximately 2 months) you contacted me telling me that you did not think she was gravid and that you point blank accused me of ripping you off. I informed you that there were many things that could have happened. I said that she could have reabsorbed the babies due to stress (which happens from time to time with live bearing species when they become stressed), I also informed you that she might have given birth and very well may have eaten them (of which we have had happen with a few live bearing species). You continued to accuse me of ripping you off and threatened to slander my name and my business's name all over the internet. At this time I told you that you really should talk to your Mother and Grandfather and have them explain the consequences for Libel and Slander and said goodbye.


And as for you taking care of those other customer that posted on here....well I am unaware that you ever made good on their deals. They were very good friends of mine as well as long term customers and I do not recall them ever saying that you took care of their deals completely.

Hi,
I had one other DOA Uraplatus that week which was shipped where it was 65 so it was most likly DOA from stress.Sarah said she is always home to accept a package and I DID tell her when I was going to ship.I should have just refunded her money when I saw the temps and not shipped...it was not worth it at all for the animal,buyer or I.I had no doubt in my mind that it would't arrive DOA or I would not have shipped.We can sit and quable about this and what I should of done and what should have happened but it is over and nothing can be changed if I could redo it I would not have shipped.
Rob I have very good recolection of what happed.I did not talk to you at all saturday night but your wife or girlfriend who said she would hold it for me.Know one said anything about me coming at 9:30, and I was their when the show opened which was 10:00 if I remember correctly, but I waited in line untill the doors opened.I also heard nothing about the female I requested being sold or me picking a new one.You can try to beat around the bush so you don't get anything bad against you, you can say what you want but I know what heppened.
Thanks,
HOLLAND INCITTI

When did you tell her you were going to ship? From the e-mails we have here, you e-mailed her letting her know you had ALREADY shipped the animals. You did not give her a heads up BEFORE you shipped. Even though some people are always home, that does not mean they do not run errands or do not have appointments to be at. You need a confirmation from them. In cold temps, they should be shipped to arrive at the earliest time 10:30am if possible(even during warm weather), it may cost a couple bucks more, but that is better than the animals sitting in the box another 5.5 hours in the cold.

We can keep this all in the past, but will you remember all of this for future transactions? Will you apply this new found knowledge so you will not end up in this situation again?

Hi,
I did send her an email letting her know I was going to ship.Their would be no reason I wouldn't have I am online all day.The only thing I could think of is it was put in a spam folder but their would have been no reason for that because every other email I sent got their.I ship with USPS,UPS, and FedEx which none will guarantee delivery until at least 12:00.I am in a rural area and its a long way for the carriers to get to the airport.I am updating the website now.This situation will NOT occur again by any means.This should not have happened at will never happen again.
Thanks,
Holland Incitti

Hey Holland,
I think that you learned ways to improve here, as you and I have also communicated outside of this thread. In the above situation, and future situations if at all possible, you not only want to send a notice of intent to ship, with all details concerning TOS exceptions that might be relative, but also ask for a return confirmation where the buyer acknowledges that all is acceptable and understood. It certainly will border on over-communication at times, but its the right way to be a pain in the butt. While I know that you rely on your written TOS in the website, it also never hurts to briefly mention those that may come into play, again to just avoid problems. Always better to have no problem than a problem with an excuse, and I think you will find that the vast majority of customers will appreciate your preemptive efforts. In fact, I can't remember the last time one complained about excessive caution with their shipment. As said by so many here, and in other threads, its not only what you do to minimize problems, but then how you solve them that will be the measure of your business. Good luck.

Although we have never done business, I have talked with you several times at various shows. I have been very impressed by your initiative and how much you have accomplished at such a young age. I always assumed you were helping your mom and I was shocked when I finally found out that she was helping you! In fact, I have mentioned you to several people as an example of what somebody can do even at a very young age.

That said, I understand that some things just take time and experience to really understand. Sometimes it seems that just using logic to determine your terms and customer service should be enough - but it really isn't. At least, not if you want to be in this business long term and enjoy a really good reputation.

You have to look at each transaction as if the customer is a beginner or hobbyist (even if they aren't) and you are the expert, in terms of what you will do to make sure it goes smoothly. That means follow that communication advice that Jim (Chamco) gave - it is right on! I copy and paste info from my "preshipping" emails to each customer (about how they have to sign for it to guarantee live arrival, etc). And if they didn't say a particular day is confirmed, I send an email saying I won't ship until I hear from them. And I check the temps in the hub and destination and let them know if it is too hot or cold for me to guarantee live arrival. I also check transit times if their temp is hot or cold so I can determine if shipping is safe. If they live too far out in the sticks for safe delivery, they will have to go to the FedEx office to pick up for live guarantee. When the delivery email comes in from FedEx, I look and make sure it was signed for. If not, I call the customer to see what is going on. (It sounds like this is a lot of work, but with the Internet, it is really fast and easy, once you have some email "form" letters that you can cut and paste, and just fill int the correct info.) And in those rare cases where either I or FedEx messes up, then it is my responsibility to fix it. I can usually get the customer to agree to credit, but if not, I will refund the money. It happens so seldom that it is not a big issue. Unless the customer is so horrible that you hope they never call you again, it is usually worth it to bend the rules a little in order to make them happy. When you go out of your way, you will often gain great loyalty from them. Unfortunately, great customer service is rare enough that doing a little unexpected extra will often make you very memorable to your customers.

So although these customer service rules may seem illogical in putting all of the responsibility on you, the seller, in the long run it is very logical because it builds your business and makes repeat customers, and those who are happy to recommend you to others.

I think you want to do this long term, and I think you really want to do the right thing. You just haven't been around long enough to understand how some things work. Believe me, I wouldn't bother to write all of this if I wasn't impressed by your efforts that I have seen at the shows. I am happy that you refunded Sarah's money - it was the right thing to do. I hope to see you at the Tampa show. If I can help you with any advice or share any shipping or other tips that I have gleaned over a VERY LONG time, I will be happy to do so. Please keep on listening to Jim and others who want to help you and who have been at this for a while, and continue to improve as you grow in this hobby / business.

Good luck! See you soon!