how do you know ig your ball python has the het gene

Just to show markers mean little

Both these snakes are het for the same thing.










That is scale color. It is very strange.

I can get my het carmels out and show you that they all have nothing special. I can get you normals out that all have the het pied markers. That is why I will never go by markers.

Originally Posted by Gary O

Just to show markers mean little

Both these snakes are het for the same thing.

That top one is wicked looking though!

Thanks. He is a awesome little boy. I hope he makes a good dad lol

Originally Posted by Mooing Tricycle

since were on this, id say,what about yellowbellies? are there some that are lookalikes and others that are not? * dont really know a whole ton about them* are they more along the lines of some of the Het Pieds with "markers", or more definite when you see them?

Absolutely more definate. Subtle, but obvious if you know what you are looking for.. You have to see them in person, but I have some pics of a yellowbelly of mine that makes it more obvious.

Personally......I think there is just such a wide variation in what the "normal" BP can look like, that many times people read way too much into what they are seeing in the hets. I have a pair of het ghosts, one is what many would say is lighter than normal, and one is what many would think is darker than normal. I saw someone else talk about how a pair of het albinos (i think) were "similarly different" (lol), one very light and one very dark). Wouldn't one think, that if there were some sort of "marker" for say, het albino, that the animals would show some sort of a consistant difference, not just looking "not normal"? Like consistantly lighter coloration, or consistantly darker, or whatever? Not some of each?

While I will agree there may or may not be something to some of the "markers", I think for the most part we are just seeing normal variations of normal coloration. Something that perhaps may pique my interest in WC or CH animals, but in CB animals I don't see it, except for the fact that there are some exceptionally attractive looking normals/hets.

Just my rambling thoughts.

Originally Posted by Cat_72

Personally......I think there is just such a wide variation in what the "normal" BP can look like, that many times people read way too much into what they are seeing in the hets. I have a pair of het ghosts, one is what many would say is lighter than normal, and one is what many would think is darker than normal. I saw someone else talk about how a pair of het albinos (i think) were "similarly different" (lol), one very light and one very dark). Wouldn't one think, that if there were some sort of "marker" for say, het albino, that the animals would show some sort of a consistant difference, not just looking "not normal"? Like consistantly lighter coloration, or consistantly darker, or whatever? Not some of each?

While I will agree there may or may not be something to some of the "markers", I think for the most part we are just seeing normal variations of normal coloration. Something that perhaps may pique my interest in WC or CH animals, but in CB animals I don't see it, except for the fact that there are some exceptionally attractive looking normals/hets.

Just my rambling thoughts.

Thanks Cat. You just saved me a lot of time trying to figure out how to say the exact same thing and after reading your rambling thoughts I've come to the conclusion that I could not have said it any better.

Me being me however, I can't let it go at that. To me the key is if you would guarantee an animal based solely on a so called marker. If I bred an albino to a normal I would guarantee that the babies were hets. If I had a snake that I didn't know the parentage of I certainly would not guarantee its genetics based on a marker. If you were selling me a het, or trying to sell me a het based on a marker I'd probably tell you to go take a flying leap. If markers make you feel good, and you want to use them to make decisions on snakes for your own collection then so be it. We all have little quirks that others laugh at (ain't that right Carl) but it makes us feel better so we use them. Just don't try to sell me the bill of goods.

Originally Posted by sschind

To me the key is if you would guarantee an animal based solely on a so called marker. If I bred an albino to a normal I would guarantee that the babies were hets. If I had a snake that I didn't know the parentage of I certainly would not guarantee its genetics based on a marker. If you were selling me a het, or trying to sell me a het based on a marker I'd probably tell you to go take a flying leap.

I 100% agree with this stance too. Everything depends on the breeder and them marketing the animals as what they are. not, what the might possibly be based on looks alone. ( this has come up before, but in an unrelated thread, and has been pretty much a solid example of one breeder/reseller *what have you* saying something is POSSIBLY something, when it is not a definite.. just to make a buck)

I think markers can have a play, but. one does have to remember that they cannot ever base a decision solely on those markers. 100% Agree.

But. its still a pretty interesting topic and something you see so often it makes your head spin, so, its cool to see other peoples pictures and opinions on this, so we can all, hopefully learn a little from it and have a bit of fun in the process as well. ^_-

another one that came up, and is sort of related, is... someone had a question on if pattern in spiders had to deal with which ones wobbled, and which ones didnt. Anyone else have any opinions on that?

I have some problems with the idea of genetic markers for recessive traits. I always see how everyone who mentions the markers always includes the disclaimer that not all hets have them and not all that have them are hets.
This simply negates any usefulness of genetic markers other than as a feel good measure. It's little more than a superstition. A baseball player might wear the same pair of socks for every game, and when they win, it was the socks, but when they lose the socks had nothing to do with it.

If a genetic marker is going to carry any significance it would have to be consistent. Every het would have to display the marker, and that marker would have to never show up on a non het animal. That is a genetic marker. Any markings or "different looks" in a het that are not possessed by other hets is just looking with hopeful eyes.
If you look enough at any normal ball, you will find something different about it, but unless that difference is consistent it is just another variation.
Take the belly stripes that are supposedly markers for the pied gene. We've all seen het pieds that did not have them and non hets that did. Just because some hets happen to have them does not make it a marker, it's just another pair of lucky socks.

I know some people are entirely convinced of the idea of genetic markers, but if they are hit or miss, what value are they really? I'm not saying that none exist, but it is my opinion that for the most part it is little more than superstitious wishful thinking.

With specific reference to the "pied marker", it was my understanding that it wasn't intended to be applied to a random grouping of animals (regardless of how the masses chose to utilize it)...it was said that within a group of possible hets (as in, from a het to het breeding), those with the "marker" supposedly have a greater likelihood of proving out. Trying to look at an available group of subadult, or better yet, CH animals, and looking for pieds in that manner is more or less the same as a Quick Pick lottery ticket...though I am not sure which has the greater chance of paying off

Originally Posted by hhmoore

With specific reference to the "pied marker", it was my understanding that it wasn't intended to be applied to a random grouping of animals (regardless of how the masses chose to utilize it)...it was said that within a group of possible hets (as in, from a het to het breeding), those with the "marker" supposedly have a greater likelihood of proving out. Trying to look at an available group of subadult, or better yet, CH animals, and looking for pieds in that manner is more or less the same as a Quick Pick lottery ticket...though I am not sure which has the greater chance of paying off

LOL probably a better chance of getting struck by lightning