Nick Mole "First Choice Reptiles" Inquiry

Back in april I got 5 Acontias percevili, Legless Skinks from tanzania, from 1st Choice. The whole deal, from my initial contact to receiving them, took from April 19 to April 22. He told me he'd only had them a week, was feeding them "parazap" dusted crickets. He admitted little knowledge of them, we discussed possible sexing methods, he said there seemed to be a tail length difference between individuals of the same size. That was fine with me, they seemed interesting but breeding is hardly of upmost importance to me. They arrived well packed, each one looking well. Since that time they've all done well, held their weight, no other problems.
I rarely buy wildcaught animals, especially fresh imports. Still, I have no regrets over this deal -- they're neat animals and I'm glad I got them.
Nick's communication with me was very timely, and he was quite open about what he did and didn't know about the animals.
People can change, businesses can change, but my dealing with him was postive.
Andy Via
Richmond, VA

I have noticed an "urgent" post on the Chameleon Research Group, www.chamresearch.com, concerning the recent F1 shipment of Chameleons from MBT in Tanzania. It calls into question Nick Mole's integrity in how he represented the animals he had for sale recently in that he was passing off animals that are WC for CB F1 offspring. Since the format of the message on the CRG site doesn't allow for a reply, I was hoping Nick could explain this situation and give his side to the story.

This post is not an attempt to take a side in this situation. I was considering contacting Nick a few weeks ago to purchase an F1 Mt. Meru Jackson pair or two. From a buyer's standpoint, I just want to see if he is a person I would do business with in the future. Below is a copy of the post on the CRG site for easy reference. Thanks.

Matt Jillson


!!URGENT Announcement!!
Written by Administrator

Friday, 27 January 2006

The following is a very unfortunate announcement concerning the recent shipment of Tanzanian Chameleons from MBT Chameleon Farms in Arusha, Tanzania which was supposed to be the beginning of a partnership between CRG and First Choice Reptiles. There is a great deal of history behind it, which will be made available as soon as possible but we wanted to get this warning out now (we apologize for taking this long) as to protect trusting customers out there and basically just to “let the truth be known."

There are many undesirable issues here but the following point is what we feel to be the most important to the end customers. First of all, all of the chameleons that Nick received were sent with Wild Caught CITES Documents, for everything he got. The only chameleons that were sent with ALL F1 documents are those that we received besides those that Nick kept, which is partially unknown due to the fact that he has ceased communication and also will not reply to requests for the rest of our chameleons. Since he is close to Miami, he went there and cleared the shipment and brought it back to his place, unpacked everything to “hydrate” and then sent ours on via Dash. Once he unpacked it all, he called and asked me if any of his chameleons could be F1’s because of the quality. It is not uncommon for us to receive some F1’s at the end of the year as WC considering MBT produces enough offspring that wild collecting isn’t always necessary. I told him word for word, “I don’t know yet but it is likely that some of the C. jacksonii merumontanus COULD be…” I also reminded him that his paperwork was all WC documents and thought nothing more of it...

So obviously, his listing the chameleons he has as C.B or F1 is fraudulent at best and he was asked numerous times; finally demanded to change his ads and his website wording. All he did on his site was add F1 to C.B. and fortunately, I backed up every change he made. Furthermore, the wording for his KS ads were misleading at best “With the recent F1 shipment from Tanzania…”…”We have the following…” He was told to change that, which he never did; eventually, he did take the ads down.

I have been contacted from numerous people with so many different issues, he has created, that I haven’t even been able to sleep… I’ll briefly throw out some examples since I want to get this out right now (Please help me spread this anywhere you think is appropriate, permission is obviously given!). He apparently arranged to sell the B. uthmoelleri to someone when they had been spoken for to someone else for literally 3+ years; same for the R. montanus. Luckily these people knew each other so the transactions never happened and we did get them from him. Also, he sold a prominent individual what was to be a sub adult F1 melleri only to give her a line that it escaped. Without giving her the option to decline, he sent another melleri, which was in such bad shape it is surprising that it arrived alive. Not to mention, it is a very old specimen measuring 22 inches! When he placed his order, 5+ months ago, with me he asked for F1 melleri sub adults. I contacted Joe only to be told they had ALL been sent to Europe months prior… So he knew then he wasn’t going to get any F1 melleri. Furthermore, this was not an MBT melleri as you can rest assured most anything that is WC from the farm has been kept long term and we have a system worked out where our field researchers/collectors only get compensated for a quality animal and literally a deduction for bringing back something otherwise… I know because I have been there and personally went out with them!

Not only is he misrepresenting and fraudulently passing off WC animals, there was an agreement to hold them for a grace period (even more so with anything WC) as to assure there will be no future problems, there are none that are overlooked at first, they are fully stabilized, fecals checked, meds applied etc which he obviously totally and completely neglected to abide by…

ALL owners of "cb" or "F1" animals from Nick Mole at First Choice Repitles should check/treat them for WC parasites and set up a full quarantine immediately.

The list goes on but rest assured, he will never get anything from us again! If ANYONE who reads this wants more detailed information before another version is posted with all the documents, emails, etc then PLEASE DO NOT HESITATE to contact me! My email is: jmease (AT) chamresearch (DOT) com and my cell # is: 256.513.2636

Again, we are sorry this has taken so long to be released and DO NOT HESITATE to contact me!

-Josh Mease
-CRG Staff
Last Updated ( Friday, 27 January 2006 )

Sorry to hear Josh got in bed with this guy, at least he has smartened up. Bottom line, don't do business with Nick Mole.

Well Nick Mole's partner Josh Guerrero of FYB exotics is using the MBT name to sell some of his animals as well. He has Black Throat Monitors presently advertised on KS as C.B.B. from Berraducci's MBT facility. Are they?? I don't know but more than likely c.h. babies or just field collected babies like the other baby BT monitors that come in the country. Below is a link regarding Josh.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...=Josh+Guerrero

I had been waiting for a big reason to go ahead and start posting to the boi. This was more than enough.

I had heard thigns about nick last year, but he was the only person who had deremensis, so I took a chance. While hard to get in touch with, especially after sending my deposit, I was going to see him in Tampa, so I wasn't too worried. I was able to dismiss the thigns I heard about him, as he seemd genuinely interested in chameleons, and had some very impressive fresh imports. Which, as any chameleons keeper knows, is not somethign you see from every vendor at a show.

He sent me the two females I picked out at tampa, and they are fine, one is in fact gravid now.

I know he knows his stuff.

As a result, I want to know how he is going to explain how he misidentified obviously wild caught animals as captive bred farm raised.

There are few enough quality chameleons coming into the country as it is. The last thing we need is a problem on THIS END.

I want to hear his side of the story.

I don't really know Nick, having only met him once, and likely have traded some emails with him, but without specific recollection. I certainly would hope to hear Josh Mease come here himself, and be available for a little Q&A and added detail, as all we have now is his statement lifted from another website. I would also like to hear Nick come and expalin some of the discrepancies, and hopefully clarify matters. As for Nick's partner, Josh Guerrero, that is a serious matter, but it has a thread of its own, and I have no idea if Nick was involved in that transaction. I do not make excuses for the misrepresentation of CB, CBB, CH, WC, etc, and it has been pointed out in more than one thread that there's a bit too much wiggle room in those terms, and it is always better for the buyer to get the exact origins written out long-type. So far, from what I read and have heard, Nick's animals are relatively healthy, and he has no significant TOS issues when a problem arises. To each his own, and not to minimize the mis-labeling, but if I were looking at two chameleons of approximately equal health, size, and age, one WC and one CB, I'm taking the WC. I completely agree that they should be properly labeled though.

The major issue with these animals is that they were misrepresented as captive bred, farm raised F1's out of MBT chameleon farm in Tanzania. Turns out, most of them (though not all) were wild caught animals. Some, the people who have been financially involved, paid very good money for the F1's - sometimes more than double the price of WC animals. Instead, what they got were common WC animals, sunjsect to the rigors of nature and capture.

The allure of the farm raised animals (which are coming, from what I hear) is that they are new genetic material, form new locales and populations, but bred and raised in captive conditions in Tanzania. You get the benifits of WC (new animals, new locales, new colorations and genes) with far fewer drawbacks.

Put it this way - WC Melleri go for $80-$100. People paid $200 for F1 sub adult melleri, and, if they got anything, they got something vastly different.

Eric A

No doubt that the allegations are serious. The deal-gone-bad, like so many things, probably has many more details than are currently available. I also find it hard to offer much of an opinion when neither of the particulars are here to discuss it, and genuinely usually prefer that the author of an opinion or concern be the one to bring it here. Not that people shouldn't have the option to read what they want and certainly derive any opinions that they care to, but it is not in my interest to debate second-hand information, and I take it all with a big grain of salt.

Agreed. I know some of the details, but further debate is not really useful until the injured parties get things situated and start activly posting. I'm guessing that the sheer amount of money (and god knows TIME) involved in orchestrating this shipment has made it quite a big deal. Josh has worked real hard for this, and I don't expect we're going to see him openly discussing this in detail until all his ducks are in a row.

I am extremely interested in this, as I was close to plunking down damn near $400 for a pair of chameleons. I also know some people that DID plunk down a good chunk of change for chameleons.

But yes, take it all with a grain of salt until details come out. They will.

I also know some people that DID plunk down a good chunk of change for chameleons.

Hard to say anything but "Ouch"! With all that you mention, it is possible that the parties involved may have varying degrees of still hoping to salvage something. Bringing it to the BOI is usually a good way to shoot ongoing negotiations, or the hopes of a comprehensive solution, right in the foot. When issues only involve a few hundred dollars total, it is an easier decision to make about bringing something here, as the only thing gained may be to warn others. Without either of the main parties being here (yet), I would still hope that they can work something out.