Exotic Pets (Ken Foose)

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

Shipping a boa with the end of its tail missing is not a screw up?

Ken Foose, as originally quoted by the OP.

I'll be more then happy to take him back and give you a full credit for him, including the shipping I charged to send him to you.

Ed, are there any snakes in your collection that you can just reach in and pet without them pulling away? This was what the OP considered aggressive behavior (that and a strike that sounds more like a feeding response than anything).

I don't think I'd be willing to put this on Ken at this point. Having a buyer pay return shipping on an injured animal is the only thing I'd have a problem with, and considering the reason the snake was ultimately returned, that's a moot point.

Originally Posted by captnemo

Ken agreed to refund shipping because of the tail. The snake was not returned due to the tail issue, but rather the snake's temperment. This amounts to buyer's remorse in my opinion.

Absolutly agree. Temperment is subjective and the fact that the snake shows no aggressiveness in Ken's care leads me to believe the snake was stressed from shipping, which is natural, and was not allowed to settle before it was deemed unmanageable by the buyer. Not Ken's fault.

Originally Posted by captnemo

I am 100% sure that Matthew decided to join Fauna and make his first 2 posts on a "bad guy" thread that Jessica started with no prior knowledge that se had started this thread. Just randomly surfing the web on Jessica's IP addy I'm sure.

The hammer is smoking from hitting the nail squarely on the noggin!

Originally Posted by superkent121

You can't say that she had "buyer's remorse" when, if you look at the time stamp of the two e-mails sent by Ken Foose, they are only a day apart. If it took like a month for her to make the decision then that could come up, but after a day? There might have been adding issues that made the decision easier to make, because, for one, she would be losing 40 or 50 dollars in the process of shipping due to "UNSATIFACTORY CONDITIONS" of the animal.

But she didn't ship it back because of the tail. She shipped it back because she didn't like the snake's temperment. Temperment which in my opinion, she didn't take enough time to fully evaluate. Ship me somewhere overnight, introduce me to a strange environment, and pet me with a coat hanger, and I won't be a real happy camper either.

Originally Posted by superkent121

And to say that you need to make a decision within the secound is absurd. She was losing money in the process and that would make anybody weary of making such a decision.

She made the decision about the tail issue very early in the process, not in the best intrerest of the snake, but because she didn't want to be out a few dollars in shipping.

Originally Posted by superkent121

Mr. Foose, just stop beating around the bush and do the right thing and refund both shipping costs, which any GREAT breeder would do for the their customers. Ask any breeder what they would do if an animal was returned in "UNSATIFACTORY CONDITIONS".

One more time since you seem stuck on the tail issue. The snake was not returned due to an UNSATISFACTORY CONDTION, it was returned because the OP didn't like it's Tude'.

Originally Posted by rattyrugrats

I emailed Ken about the missing tail tip regarding viable solutions. He offered me a refund on the snake, including the shipping cost, but minus the cost of shipping him back. I really didn't want to be out the cost of shipping him back due to the animal not being as it was described, since it was obviously not my fault. I asked if there was any other way to handle the situation, such as a slight discount, but he said no. So, I figured, if he was decent in all other aspects, I could forgive the discrepancy. But he turned out to be aggressive as well, which Ken said he was not. So, with both of these factors, both of which I had not been informed about, even after inquiry, I decided to return him. I even informed Ken the previous Friday that I would be shipping him out on Monday to avoid any weekend troubles if they arose. He said okay and to just ship him back to the address in his signature. He NEVER mentioned that he was not going to refund my money.

You keep saying "both of these factors", when in fact, that's how you put it together in your mind. The tail issue and the temperment issue are two seperate things. Ken offered to rectify the tail issue in accordance with his TOS, which you agreed to when you purchased the snake. He also refunded your purchase price minus shipping in accordance with his TOS when you returned the snake because you didn't like it's Tude'. Buyer Remorse all the way.

Originally Posted by rattyrugrats

So, with all of this in mind, am I not getting stiffed?

Only in your mind, and the mind of the guy you're getting free internet from.

Originally Posted by rattyrugrats

He was not willing to try to work anything else out besides me returning the snake for a $95 loss to me. He did not take a loss at all.

Why should he take a loss when you returned the snake because it wasn't a perfectly behaved teddy bear. These are wild animals, and this was a stressed one. Given time to settle, there is no reason to believe it would not have behaved as described by Ken.

Originally Posted by Seamus Haley

The behavior of a snake is dictated by instinctive responses to stimulus. Change the stimulus and you change the response.

Ken is in no way responsible for an inexperienced buyer providing stimulus that prompt defensive responses. "Pet it with a plastic hanger" tells me everything I really need to know... Jessica, you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to reptile behavior. You wanted to return an animal because you were too damn dumb to understand that it's behaviors were directly caused by your behaviors and you wanted... what? Something to love and hold and pet and cuddle?

Couldn't have said it better myself

I think Ken should have issued a refund for the entire amount: price for the boa and shipping to Jessica plus what it cost her to ship it back. He sent out a snake with a missing tail tip, and when she inquired about a discount on the animal it would have been best to offer her one. I understand that small flaws can be missed occasionally, especially when one is dealing with large amounts of animals, but when you advertise a snake as flaw free or otherwise do not describe the flaw, you owe your customer either full refund (including shipping both ways), or a discounted price if the customer chooses to accept that. I am only speaking about the tail flaw, not the temperament of the boa.

Oh, and it seems to me that the reason she hesitated to send the boa back immediately is because she was going to have to pay to have it shipped back to Ken, which should never have been an issue IMO. He should have paid for that, it was his mistake remember?

I did not "poke it with a hanger." My boyfriend went to try to pick him up and he started puffing up, hissing like crazy, and then struck at my boyfriend's hand. He withdrew his hand and closed the glass door right before it struck at his face. I then went and looked in on him a while later and he struck at the glass again. So I pulled him out and put him into another enclosure, thinking that maybe he didn't like that one for some reason. He continued to be very aggressive and I didn't feel like being bit, so I rubbed him with a hanger and he calmed down a bit. I tried to reach in and pet him, but he pulled away. He clearly did not want to be touched, let alone handled.
I also am not inexperienced with snakes. I currently own five boas, some of which have had an attitude at one time or another. My first boa is still with me, which I have had for over two years. Yes, still relatively new, but I have had other snakes as well for a while now. Do not make assumptions about something you do not have any information on! Yes, I used a plastic hanger. But is a hook that much different? I don't think so. I could see the problem if I used a metal hanger, but not plastic.
The truth is, I wanted to return him right away but didn't want to be out shipping money for something that wasn't my fault, which I told Ken Foose. But he refused to work out another arrangement. So I hesitated! Who wouldn't? We don't want to lose money on something that is not our faults! If he had mentioned the flaw, I honestly would not have bought the animal! We both could have avoided this whole mess. But he didn't catch the tail tip, which I noticed within 24 hours.

Jessica Miller

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

Shipping a boa with the end of its tail missing is not a screw up?

Asked and answered, Ed. Or did you not burden yourself with reading the whole thread?

Originally Posted by KelliH

Oh, and it seems to me that the reason she hesitated to send the boa back immediately is because she was going to have to pay to have it shipped back to Ken, which should never have been an issue IMO. He should have paid for that, it was his mistake remember?

She agreed to the terms of his TOS when she bought the snake, Remember?

Originally Posted by Slim

She agreed to the terms of his TOS when she bought the snake, Remember?

Can you direct me to his T.O.S. please? I looked all over the website and I'm not seeing it. Thanks.

Yes, Ken could and perhaps should have offered a discount or paid return shipping. However, by not doing so, he did not violate his TOS, and understood that the ultimate deciding factor in returning the snake was attitude.

Side note: As soon as he was questioned about the initial shipping cost not being refunded, Ken should have made an exception and sent it to her. From a business standpoint, sometimes meeting the customer halfway, even when it goes against TOS, can go a long way. Even though Ken doesn't look like a particularly bad guy here, this thread would have most likely been avoided.

Can you direct me to his T.O.S. please? I looked all over the website and I'm not seeing it. Thanks.

Slim? Or anyone?