Roberta Byrd -Strike one !

Joe.............. thanks for fixing my head on straight. Maybe you could be a Psych M.D. on the side LOL
e mail............ the nasty one was not from Roberta. It was from someone alot of you know. I'm not gonna post it. What someone wrote me about my & Roberta's transaction , doesn't really have anything to do between me & Roberta. It was just someone stating how they felt......in a not so mature way
The BIGGEST reason of the anger on my part is I own alot of high dollar snakes and when one comes in sick....that's a problem. I ALWAYS quarenteen.....but still, I don't like it in my home. When you start paying $2,500 for one snake............you can't afford a sick snake. I'm sure all of you agree with that
JOE D. My hat is off to you sir. Your words of wisdom have gave me knew insight. Thank You.
Also, Joes post was mature and he wrote about both sides. NOT "show us pics"!
Last but not least...the let down angered me. Here I was getting an adult,cycled,ready to breed.......now she's not capable & I can't risk one of my males getting sick
THANKS AGAIN. JOE Dave Derrick

Gee dave
The reason we want pics is the truth.
simple....thought so
I am not picking sides in this, so just the facts man

On another note I received your conversations between you and Neil Gubitz via ol Neil himself.
A little arrogant ...yeah sure...somewhat. but thats Neil
A little childish ...yeah maybe somewhat.
The gist of it was Neil trying to coach you and help out [with his use of caps and ceartain adjectives] but he wasn't overboard .

This is a message from Neil Gubitz at FaunaClassifieds Forums ( http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/index.php ). The FaunaClassifieds Forums owners cannot accept any responsibility for the contents of the email.

To email Neil Gubitz, you can use this online form:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...orm&userid=840

OR, by email:
mailto:ngubitz@webtv.net

This is the message:

John.... these are the email exchanges that Dave and I had.... these are the one's that were (according to him) very nasty....


Sent e-mail message
From: ngubitz@webtv.net (Neil Gubitz) Date: Sat, Mar 15, 2003, 9:01pm
To: reptiles@chartertn.net Subject: Roberta
Dave.... to be honest, you were SO WRONG to start that thread!.... I know Roberta very well and she is as honest as you can get!.... Why the hell couldn't you call her first before all this??.... Dave, you're ALWAYS asking ME for MY advice??.... Why didn't you at least ask ME about this??.... There are MANY reasons a snake can get a URI QUICKLY.... and STRESS is one of them!.... How many times have you seen threads on here about ME sending out a snake that was received with a URI????.... You know damn well I don't send out sick animals??.... Neither does Roberta.... why couldn't you give her the benefit of the doubt at first.... you KNOW what type of idiots swarm around that site ready to pounce on the slightest thing and blow it TOTALLY out of proportion!??
That was very wrong, and even IF your snake has a URI, I can GUARANTEE YOU that Roberta DIDN'T KNOW IT!!.... You should really apologize to her for this, this could have ALL been handled with a couple of emails and PHONE CALLS. instead of dragging her name through the mud just so YOU can "get it off your chest"!!.... BAD BAD BAD.... ....Neil %>))
Discarded e-mail message
From: reptiles@chartertn.net (East TN Reptiles) Date: Sun, Mar 16,
2003, 12:37am To: ngubitz@webtv.net (Neil Gubitz) Subject: (no subject)
I just got the Hog out of her cage. Her mouth has slimmy salavia pooring out the sides of her mouth. she wheezes & gurgles so bad you can actually feel it in her throat when holding her. She has been sneezing all day.And I took pics to post
Just for your FYI Neil. I e mail her right after I examined the snake. No reply.Was this a transaction between me,you & her? Think not! Don't ever e mail me raising hell on me when it doesn't concern you! Your the one with the bad guy post on the forum. I personally don't have anything against you. Just do NOT get into my business. If you have something to say in her behalve.........do NOT curse me or curse @ me! I've NEVER done anything to you. Your e mail was uncalled for & extremley rude
Sent e-mail message
From: ngubitz@webtv.net (Neil Gubitz) Date: Sun, Mar 16, 2003, 7:48am
To: reptiles@chartertn.net (East TN Reptiles) Subject: Re:
Dave.... You still just don't get it??.... You should have worked it out by yourselves before you put it on the board.... that's what EVERYBODY is saying.... and, Just like I stick up for YOU when someone says something about you.... I STICK UP FOR MY FRIENDS.... NO MATTER WHO'S RIGHT!.... You were wrong in this case.... be as mad at me as you want, it doesn't change the facts that you shouldn't have posted this SO SOON!!
....Neil %>))
Discarded e-mail message
From: reptiles@chartertn.net (East TN Reptiles) Date: Sun, Mar 16,
2003, 1:33am To: ngubitz@webtv.net (Neil Gubitz) Subject: YOUR ONE TO TALK
You know so much bout snakes? How long you been breeding? Your the one with all the BAD post from buyers. Your the one who posted a snake for sale on K snake & someone had to tell you what it was due to you had it posted as the wrong speceis ! Your ALL over the BOI under "bad guy" Now, you shown me your level of maturity.No very business like nor mature http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...threadid=14575
FaunaClassifieds Forums - Neil Gubitz-BAD GUY-BAD EXPERIENCE.url (octet-stream attachment)
ngubitz@webtv.net (Neil Gubitz) Date: Sun, Mar 16, 2003, 7:51am To: reptiles@chartertn.net (East TN Reptiles) Subject: Re: YOUR ONE TO TALK
It's just too bad you got this chip on your shoulder you can't see what every person on your thread has told you.... you just rushed the gun.... that's ALL we were saying....


these are them for you all to read

forgive me if i missed something here.
you were psyched to get an adult..cooled and ready to breed female..
if you quarenteen first all of your snakes..then how long do you quarenteen for?
if she was ready to go...was she going to go right away or after a quarenteen?
frankly with that kind of dollar snakes around i would have thought you would be buying breeders for next season.
give them at least a 6 month if not longer quarenteen first.
that being the case this particular snake being sick would be a nuisance but not a total loss for breeding program that far down the road..she could have been returned or remedied or whatever with time to spare.
haste makes waste..rememeber that .
take your time..find your snakes..quarenteen them properly.
dont think about making a buck on it so quickly and you wont be so angry if it should happen again.
seems you had an awful lot riding on this animal arriving in good health and that is understandable but..perhaps banking on the idea it was healthy etc. and foregoing the quarenteen is an expensive mistake and one that a person with 14 years of experience should know better then to do.

im not picking on you dave nor am i trying to accuse you of anything..i was just surprised at what i read that you wrote.
perhaps i misunderstood and if so please forgive me.
if this inflames you please also forgive me...but think about what im saying for a minute if what i read was correct.
im no expert nor am i trying to be im only using my old lady brain which sometimes can get lost so please if im off base correct me.

best wishes.
kim

e mail............ the nasty one was not from Roberta. It was from someone alot of you know. I'm not gonna post it. What someone wrote me about my & Roberta's transaction , doesn't really have anything to do between me & Roberta. It was just someone stating how they felt......in a not so mature way

This is a problem between Dave and Roberta. Their goal (I hope!) is to resolve this issue as smoothly as possible. Posting Neil's private comments to Dave might get it off-topic. That's why I believe Dave did not want to post that PM from Neil.

Regards,

Or Daniel
It could be there was a 'little' bit of exaggeration of the content of the e-mail.
I believed it was pertinant to this thread

good point mr apple..i again feel im missing something.
he states dont curse me or me you.
where are the curses? i dont find what neil said in that email offensive at all.
infact he makes sense..why drag it out here..isent the idea of a good guy/girl what she does in face of the problem versus what went wrong that perhaps we might never understand exactly why?
if she returns daves money and takes back the snake i would have thought of her as a good girl without hesitation.
giving her the benefit of the doubt what then has he actually lost?
mr dave seems to have very thin skin and a vivid imagination of curse words unless there is another email missing.
mr apple thanks for bringing that point forward..i think its an important one.

I guess "damn" & hell are just ordinary words you use in front of your parents, maybe even your preacher? teacher? boss? Bottom line........................................ IT'S MINE & ROBERTAS TRANSACTION....NOT NEILS! Speaking of outstanding character do a search on Neil! Talk bout "bad Guy" How long you been in the business Neil? How many threads ya got ......bad ones? How many cheesy post do you have? How many overly priced snakes you got? Just to think, a man? selling snakes and don't even know the speices or the ulitmate post "HYPO HOGS! LOL you kill me! I'd had to email you bout the wrong species PLUS I had to e mail you bout Hog Ilse's are naturally hypos, not Hypo Hogs! What do you know bout snakes outside of over priceing them & putting your nose where it doesn't belong? Grow up, maybe getting into a business that suits your personallity.............maybe used cars? Dave Derrick

Dave,

I guess "damn" & hell are just ordinary words you use in front of your parents, maybe even your preacher? teacher? boss?

No they are not. At least in my book.

Bottom line........................................ IT'S MINE & ROBERTAS TRANSACTION....NOT NEILS!

I agree with that statement. So back to the issue at hand then. Did you and Roberta talked about it yesterday? What was the outcome of that conversation?

Posting without allowing a reasonable period of time for contact is generally pretty premature, especially before the seller has been notified of the problem...

But...

It's a personal decision really, based off how comfortable the buyer felt with the transaction and how wronged they believed themselves to be.

If the box had contained a phone book instead of a snake... Would this have been premature?

Now... Not saying that I agree with the speed with which it was posted since it didn't allow the seller time to make the situation right and, in all likelyhood, will only breed animosity between the parties involved and make a positive resolution much more difficult to arrive at but Dave did feel as if he didn't get what he paid for. He paid for a healthy snake... The one he got was not healthy. The bigger issue involved isn't that a snake can develop a problem in transit, it's the degree to which the problem is displaying itself. Specifically that he feels the severity of the problem could not have developed during the time the animal was in transit and that therefor it was misrepresented as healthy BEFORE the sale...

Looking at a few of Roberta's posts and seeing the support she got here, I find it unlikely that she would be selling a sick animal and tend to think it is more reasonable that the animal did develop the condition during shipping, even with the description given... but as has been said before "Nobody is beyond reproach."

I do not believe that there was anything particularly aggressive about the requests for the pertinent e-mails to be posted, or the request for pictures... I think (too lazy to go back and check) that someone said that over forty e-mails were exchanged over the course of the transaction, so perhaps just posting some of the more important ones i.e.- those that discussed the shipping conditions? Pictures from either party that were exchanged of the animal prior to the sale would be great too... and if possible, the pictures showing the apparant illness the animal is now suffering from just so that everyone who's interested can get a more complete understanding of the situation.

Thanks agian everyone for not turning this into a soap opera. I had hoped to talk with Dave by now but he will not call me. I have everyone of his emails but do not feel the need to go posting them all right now. I will post any that I feel necessary when I feel necessary. I have not and will not slander Dave in any way as he has done me. I do not know him personally, only know that this has not been a good experience. Kim F., thanks for pointing that situation about quarentine out, saves me some typing. Joe D. you were right, lots of red lights from the get go on this and I ran everyone of them. It was not about the money or loss of sales, I had atleast 15 people wanting her. His persistance and sense of humor caught my attention at the onset of the sale, from there, things went down hill I guess. I trusted his judgement and not my own and for that I am guilty. Never again will that happen. I am selling most of my aniamals, not because I lost interest in the animals, just lost interest in the business. This transaction is just confirms I made the right decission. I will not be completely out of the picture, will just be behind the scenes. Call it a merger if you will, with another fellow herper Anyway, here are the last two emails between us. Well actually I got two more from him after this, one was Neil's email Dave forwarded to me, the other was the one where he referred to this thread as the "I feel sorry for Roberta forum". I don't see where anyone is taking sides here, just seeing the light, and you have all made very common sense comments and I thank you all for keeping this thread pure!

Thanks my friends,

Roberta

From: East TN Reptiles
To: Roberta
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: thanks


Keep the cash! I can get the meds & have the experience to cure her. All I have to do is buy the meds.I'm tired of listing to whinny post cause "I" got the ass end, even Neil "none of his DAMN business" Gulbits e mailed me raising HELL on your behalf!
Out of those 44 e mails.....how many was asking you to contact me?! I got an e mail from you bout every 3 days. POOR Roberta,sold a sick snake to a VERY well know breeder & the lil' boys have came to take up for you. A snake does NOT get that sick in 16 hrs.I've kept snakes for the last 14 yrs.....hell. what in the world was I thinking? Imagine..me & 14 yrs and I don't know anything. Boy! am I stupid or what!? And I still have the email where you said the weather was good. So get off the crap bout you getting your arm twisted to ship. You won,got the cash..me? a sick snake.I'll cure the snake. I do NOT expect to hear from you or your friends again. As a matter of fact...wht don't you e mail "your" friends and tell em me & you are NONE of their business! That's the LEAST you can do

THIS IS MY REPLY TO THE ABOVE>

Dave:

I cannot understand why you are behaving in this manor. Right from the get go you post slanderous remarks about me on the BOI when you know I am at work and you try to even make me look bad for not replying to you after she arrived. That is a blatant attack and for why I don't know. I told you that girl was not sick when I bagged her and yet you continue to accuse. I did not and will not make any false accusations about you. That is not my style. I even tried to call you before I went to the BOI and left a message for you to call me which you still haven't done. You insisted upon me shipping her fed-ex after both my ad and I said no. I trusted you must be right and I was wrong and agreed to do it. I was wrong for not sticking to my guns. I would have worked with you on this even though part of the agreement to me shipping fed-ex was that I was to not be held liable. I would have worked with you Dave because that is the kind of person I am. You wanted me to ship on Tuesday after the money arrived but I had to leave town. It was then that I told you we were having nicer weather but Thursday a cold front came thru for the day. I was to ship to you regardless of temps and you know it. I have every email to back this all up. Also you mention me only replying every three days. I only get on here about once a day and sometimes once every two days or so. However, I could not understand why you would send email after email when you knew I was at work and almost all 40 something of your emails always said the same thing. I usually only get this kind of stuff from kids, not experienced herpers. I would normally compile all received emails into one reply email. And sometimes I just wouldn't keep answering the same questions over and over. You have had me confused from the get go and even more so today. If you would have paid close attention to my post I thanked everyone for not turning in into a soap opera. You started this and then you cry about it. Most of those people posting on there I don't even know. They are just good people and can see the wrong in what you did and now you make call the post by a false name "I feel sorry for Roberta forum" and get mad at the people for posting to your thread. That is sooooo wrong Dave. Although I was not to be held liable for shipping to her as you requested, I would have worked with you on this Dave. I am a good honest person Dave because I have a bigger man then you upstairs to answer to someday. I am sorry for not sticking to my guns about shipping. I feel bad for the animal here and I do feel responsible this happened to her because I listened to you about using fed-ex. I am sorry you could not have been a decent person about this and tried to work with me. Its not too late to call me as I have requested you to do several times now Dave. Its apparent from the BOI that the good people can see what's going on here, yet I am still extending the offer for you to call me about this when I probably don't really need to.

Thanks as always,

Roberta

PS. Sorry for the damn and hell words that Dave also uses in emails yet attacks Neil for.