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10-20-2008, 08:50 AM
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#31
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Gary,
It is what it is. Since you signed the same petition I did as well as Venomoid, Inc, what is your opinion on venomous snakes surgically altered by an experienced licensed DVM?
Maybe we need a petition against venomous snakes surgically altered by experienced DVMs that can and will make mistakes. Please don't deviate from the question above and let me know if you read the small print in the petition you are sponsoring.
http://www.aussiereptileclassifieds....TION/index.php
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10-20-2008, 02:53 PM
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#32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devenomized
Gary,
It is what it is. Since you signed the same petition I did as well as Venomoid, Inc, what is your opinion on venomous snakes surgically altered by an experienced licensed DVM?
Maybe we need a petition against venomous snakes surgically altered by experienced DVMs that can and will make mistakes. Please don't deviate from the question above and let me know if you read the small print in the petition you are sponsoring.
http://www.aussiereptileclassifieds....TION/index.php
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I know what I am sponcoring. You do not need to bring up something that the people that is running that came to me personaly and asked me to sponcor
I say it agian. As I have for years. It needs to be put on the site and info that the animal has chance to become hot again and have you yourself and others working for venomoid inc to stop free handling venomoids like gaboons within feet of general public.
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10-20-2008, 05:41 PM
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#33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary O
I know what I am sponcoring. You do not need to bring up something that the people that is running that came to me personaly and asked me to sponcor
I say it agian. As I have for years. It needs to be put on the site and info that the animal has chance to become hot again and have you yourself and others working for venomoid inc to stop free handling venomoids like gaboons within feet of general public.
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Thank you for the clarification. I WILL put the video on my website and I will suggest to Dr. Sabatini to include the video on his website. We can have different views, but as far as this video goes, I personally think it is important for people to know.
In reference to free handling at the Hamburg show, that's up to the show's sponsors to communicate to Venomoid, Inc or myself when I'm free handling a venomoid. For your own reference, any venomoid that is taken out in public is is out of the reach of children and show participants; however, we have allowed adults to touch perhaps the tail of a venomoid, but we do not allow them to handle any of them. For obvious reasons, we have not taken out vipers, I don't even do that myself. Why would we take out a large Gaboon to hold behind a table? That would be like holding a big snapping turtle. I wouldn't suggest that to venomoid gaboon owners like myself. However, have I been guilty of holding a venomoid viper without a proper tool used for venomous snakes? Sure, I have done that, but that's only my decision.
The whole handling argument can get out of hand quickly. I've seen youtube videos of snake owners that hold very large constrictors that can do a lot more damage than a 2" fang, but that's their decision. Do I think they are showing the wrong impression to viewers? Do I think they should be more careful? Unfortunately, my answer is accountability. People as adults need to understand the results of their mistakes and decisions.
If someone wants to purchase a cheap venomoid because it will be half the price as opposed to getting from an experienced licensed DVM, nobody will stop them, but when that snake ends up in a video like the one you shared with us? I don't blame you for not doing a better job at presenting your subjective opinion and nobody should blame me for handling venomoids or for that matter, blame Venomoid Inc for selling venomoids to the public.
The only culprit is the idiot who bought the snake without doing any research. Just to give you a quick example, we had a guy that came to our table with a king cobra inside a small clear plastic container. He wanted to know if we were interested in buying the snake. Unfortunately, we already have quite a few kings and we were not interested, but I asked him why he wanted to sell the snake. He said he got the snake but his wife didn't want their basement bathroom to be a snake cage. A bathroom? Gary, there is a lot of education that could help many people in the reptile industry, I congratulate you for the efforts you have contributed to the community, but please, we are doing our job educating on our side and rather than debating we should educate people like the poor guy keeping a hot King Cobra in a bathroom.
As much as you want to try, we can save them all.
In contrast, what would say to vendors with 12' + foot burmese pythons around their necks who displayed the animals at the hamburg show also behind their tables? I understand your concerns about veterinary malpractice and the risks associated with a DVM lacking experience and sleep doing surgical procedures.
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10-20-2008, 05:57 PM
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#34
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edit:
In contrast, what would say to vendors with 12' + foot burmese pythons around their necks who displayed the animals at the hamburg show also behind their tables? I understand your concerns about veterinary malpractice and the risks associated with a DVM lacking experience and sleep doing surgical procedures, but come on, that's the same argument you can make on doctors working the ER room or people driving a school bus. Risk is everywhere Gary and if you are concerned about the venomomid you just purchased form an experienced DVM, you have two choices, quickly return it for a refund, or throw a couple of live rats, try to milk the snake, take the snake to an exotic licensed DVM to be checked yearly, and use proper tools when handling your venomoid. The list goes on. Handling is a personal decision that has its associated risks based on your subjective opinion as well as mine.
my .02
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10-20-2008, 05:58 PM
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#35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devenomized
I've seen youtube videos of snake owners that hold very large constrictors that can do a lot more damage than a 2" fang,
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Not if that fang is attached to a hot "venomoid".
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10-20-2008, 07:32 PM
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#36
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Christian It may not have been you but the show I was hat months ago venomoid inc had an adult gaboon out free handling it. I was at Al Coritz table that was only about 3 ables away. The people behind venomoid incs words were this....
See they tame down like any other snake and can be handled. There is no danger in handling a venomoid......................
With what you say on forums about agreeing with not handling a venomoid and treating them like hots then seeing that makes me think you will say one thing and do another.
Oh a gaboon is a viper lol
I seen it with my own eyes a gabby out and being handled. Kids did not touch it but they were in range to be struck
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10-20-2008, 08:37 PM
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#37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devenomized
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In contrast, what would say to vendors with 12' + foot burmese pythons around their necks who displayed the animals at the hamburg show also behind their tables?
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Red herring argument. Evading the issue at hand, which is hots, you point to another risk to get the heat off of you.
Why?
Because there is no logical answer to the previous post showing that vets and doctors are imperfect; and knowing that is true, you risk your life and in my opinion are liable for lives and injury to others when these procedures are done and there is the possibilty that they were not done perfectly.
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10-20-2008, 11:37 PM
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#38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucille
Red herring argument. Evading the issue at hand, which is hots, you point to another risk to get the heat off of you.
Why?
Because there is no logical answer to the previous post showing that vets and doctors are imperfect; and knowing that is true, you risk your life and in my opinion are liable for lives and injury to others when these procedures are done and there is the possibilty that they were not done perfectly.
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I hope you don't want to talk about risk. Do you know the meaning of safety? it's two words, "risk management". There is a balance between taking too much risk and mitigating every possible risk. A buyer interested in purchasing a venomoid, a hot, a tarantula, or a cockatoo needs to balance the risk and take full accountability. This same equation goes to the people selling, servicing, or providing assistance; they too have to balance the risk they take and they need to be accountable for their actions.
If you really want to eliminate the risk of veterianrian malpractice, then you should not buy a venomoid, but if that's the case, you shouldn't purchase a hot either. If we are talking about mitigating the risk, then the only person who is truly going to do this risk assessment is the buyer, you can't do it for them and I can't either. I hope I didn't loose you there.
just remember, "RISK MANAGEMENT" and each person is responsible for what they believe is an acceptable risk or residual risk.
Risk is always going to be present. ALWAYS.
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10-20-2008, 11:40 PM
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#39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary O
Christian It may not have been you but the show I was hat months ago venomoid inc had an adult gaboon out free handling it. I was at Al Coritz table that was only about 3 ables away. The people behind venomoid incs words were this....
See they tame down like any other snake and can be handled. There is no danger in handling a venomoid......................
With what you say on forums about agreeing with not handling a venomoid and treating them like hots then seeing that makes me think you will say one thing and do another.
Oh a gaboon is a viper lol
I seen it with my own eyes a gabby out and being handled. Kids did not touch it but they were in range to be struck
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if a gaboon viper was within reach of people attending the show, that's not very smart. I agree with you. I had a gabby at a hamburg show probably a year or two ago. I might have used a short hook and my hand to get her out of the container and then in the display cage, but i wouldn't be holding it any longer than that. If it was me being too close to people while I did that, then you are correct Gary. I made a mistake that could have resulted in someone getting their hand bitten by a large fangs. As far as vemon goes, that wouldn't be the case, but I understand what you are saying.
I can agree with you and respect every opinion you have Gary.
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10-20-2008, 11:41 PM
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#40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat_72
Not if that fang is attached to a hot "venomoid".
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yes cathy. that's correct. or a dog with rabies
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