VMSherp, Monica and Sean Niland

Originally Posted by zorro

These people don't sell to pet shops never have.

Really? Then why do they state on their website that "we focused on producing quality reptiles at reasonable prices for wholesale distribution to pet retailers. We sold only to legitimate licensed dealers; we did not sell our animals to individuals. This single-minded approach allowed us to concentrate on volume production of many species while protecting the pet retailers' business as well."

Amazing how people are registering just to comment on this thread...

Originally Posted by zorro

How long have you been with reptiles, by the looks of your grammar and your name calling not very long. Are you just trying to impress your girlfriend or just trying to get more money from them? These people don't sell to pet shops never have. I can get several dozen to come here and tell you how happy they are with their purchases form VMS. You are very wrong trying to challenge a breeder like Sean that was in this business for the love of the reptiles since before you where most likely born.
John

This is entirely my opinion on what happened to me when purchasing from VMS, insulting me has nothing to do with what we are taking about here. If you would go to their web site they STATE they sell to pet shops. Thank you.

Originally Posted by PSReptiles

This is entirely my opinion on what happened to me when purchasing from VMS, insulting me has nothing to do with what we are taking about here. If you would go to their web site they STATE they sell to pet shops. Thank you.

Chelsea

Originally Posted by Tony C

Really? Then why do they state on their website that "we focused on producing quality reptiles at reasonable prices for wholesale distribution to pet retailers. We sold only to legitimate licensed dealers; we did not sell our animals to individuals. This single-minded approach allowed us to concentrate on volume production of many species while protecting the pet retailers' business as well."

Amazing how people are registering just to comment on this thread...

+1 Thank you, if people would do some research before opening their mouth it would be nice.

Chelsea

Originally Posted by Lizard Lair

VMS used to advertise sales to individuals all the time on Kingsnake, plus they sell at the local reptile shows to individuals. I have watched his website for years and geckos have always been available to the general public.

Not all pet shops are bad! Some actually take proper care of their herps. I have a pet shop in my town I occasionally sell to and I have heard from people who have bought my geckos from those shops - how much they love the gecko! And they have asked for more. I also have a pet shop in my town I will NEVER sell to. Any healthy reptile coming to their shop gets a severe infestation of mites from their cages. I care about my reptiles a lot. So why would you assume that the pet shops Sean deals with are death traps? Or assume he cares so little about his geckos he would allow them to go to a bad shop?



I also would want to be informed of a tail kink and it's to bad you weren't. But, the breeder offered immediate full refund.

I would imagine they were death traps because on the website the reason they switched over to selling to more individuals over time was because...

"While this concept worked well initially, we began to discover that few retailers could provide accurate care information to the customer. Indeed, many seemed unable to care for our animals properly themselves."

No why you would send them to a pet store like that I don't know, it doesn't sound like it was a good pet store to me. *shrug* But again this is mainly just about their need to be responsible and mark their animals with the deformities. If they do that, I wouldn't say anything else about them, even though I might not agree with a lot they seem to actually be doing.

Chelsea

Originally Posted by FallenAngel

I haven't read everything yet but the entire thing about the tail kinks sounds like absolute B.S. to me. They're actually saying that because some tail kinks are produced one year and not the next proves it to not be genetic? Are you kidding me? Think of two Mack Snows het. for albino, are they going to necessarily produce a SS albino every year? No! Tail kinks, IMO, are recessive. We have one female who we've bred who produced 2 babies with tail kinks. I e-mailed the breeder and found that the breeding female we have had siblings with tail kinks. Sounds like it's genetic and recessive to me!!

That is one of my points regarding the way they irresponsibly breed, they can not say they have proved tail kinks to not be genetic as it has never really been shown to go either way in leopard geckos.

They should be -marked- as "tail kinked geckos" next to the photo no mater what they think is "normal" or just a "random occurrence." I think the consumer has the right to be the judge of that and also has the right to be able to decide whether they want a tail kinked/deformed gecko or not.

Chelsea

Originally Posted by PSReptiles

This is entirely my opinion on what happened to me when purchasing from VMS, insulting me has nothing to do with what we are taking about here. If you would go to their web site they STATE they sell to pet shops. Thank you.

You are taking it out of context once again this is what it actually says:


About us

About VMS

VMS is located in the Colorado Rocky Mountains near Westcliffe, Colorado. VMS is wholly owned and operated by Sean & Monica Niland.

We've been involved in herpetoculture and the pet industry since 1977. In 1990, we focused on producing quality reptiles at reasonable prices for wholesale distribution to pet retailers. We sold only to legitimate licensed dealers; we did not sell our animals to individuals. This single-minded approach allowed us to concentrate on volume production of many species while protecting the pet retailers' business as well.

While this concept worked well initially, we began to discover that few retailers could provide accurate care information to the customer. Indeed, many seemed unable to care for our animals properly themselves. As a result, we have begun offering our animals directly to retail customers as well. Retail customers can enjoy receiving the same quality animals we are known for, as well as getting first pick on 'special' animals. Additionally, retail customers receive the full benefit of our skills and knowledge to ensure their success with the reptile of choice.

John

Originally Posted by zorro

How long have you been with reptiles, by the looks of your grammar and your name calling not very long. Are you just trying to impress your girlfriend or just trying to get more money from them?

What, exactly, does grammar have to do with one's level of experience with reptiles? Granted, I wish more people used better grammar - it would make posts a lot easier to read - but I don't think there is a necessarily a correlation with experience; other than the fact that the long timers tend to be older, and are often more formal in their writing patterns. Being over, say, 35, does not necessarily equate to extensive reptile experience, though.
And what's with the insults? Should they be taken as an indicator of YOUR experience?

[quote]These people don't sell to pet shops never have. I can get several dozen to come here and tell you how happy they are with their purchases form VMS. [quote]
If your grammar (syntax, and punctuation) is correct <cough, laugh> it would seem that you are saying that you can get several dozen pet shops to come here...but your preceding statement is that these people don't sell to pet shops. What are you really trying to say?

You are very wrong trying to challenge a breeder like Sean that was in this business for the love of the reptiles since before you where most likely born.

Are you really suggesting that a breeder is beyond reproach, simply due to some number of years in the business? People make mistakes, it's common ground for all of us...it's how we deal with them that matters. Sure, they offered a refund, and that's the right thing to do; but that doesn't mean that not making a buyer aware of defects is acceptable, or that the error should just be brushed off because they don't feel it is genetic.

Damn - messed up the quote tags. The second paragraph should look like this:

These people don't sell to pet shops never have. I can get several dozen to come here and tell you how happy they are with their purchases form VMS.

If your grammar (syntax, and punctuation) is correct <cough, laugh> it would seem that you are saying that you can get several dozen pet shops to come here...but your preceding statement is that these people don't sell to pet shops. What are you really trying to say?

Originally Posted by zorro

You are taking it out of context once again this is what it actually says:


About us

About VMS

VMS is located in the Colorado Rocky Mountains near Westcliffe, Colorado. VMS is wholly owned and operated by Sean & Monica Niland.

We've been involved in herpetoculture and the pet industry since 1977. In 1990, we focused on producing quality reptiles at reasonable prices for wholesale distribution to pet retailers. We sold only to legitimate licensed dealers; we did not sell our animals to individuals. This single-minded approach allowed us to concentrate on volume production of many species while protecting the pet retailers' business as well.

While this concept worked well initially, we began to discover that few retailers could provide accurate care information to the customer. Indeed, many seemed unable to care for our animals properly themselves. As a result, we have begun offering our animals directly to retail customers as well. Retail customers can enjoy receiving the same quality animals we are known for, as well as getting first pick on 'special' animals. Additionally, retail customers receive the full benefit of our skills and knowledge to ensure their success with the reptile of choice.

John

Explain to me what was out of context with what I just said? You just posted exactly -what- I said and honestly are helping my cause I think. Everything Tony C and myself have stated is right there like we said it was...plain and simple, so thank you.

This is all far beyond the point anyway, the point being they don't even mark their animals deformed on their website and clearly have no problem with this or selling them without mentioning it.

Chelsea