Flipping....the good, the bad, and the ugly.

thats whats great about this place, you can find out who is doing what (for the most part), and base your decision to purchase on the info you find here. personnaly i would never buy from a flipper as i would much rather get it direct from a breeder who cares and takes personal pride in what they produce and sell. besides, why pay more to someone who is just in it for the money when you can help support a breeder/hobbyist

It kind of depends on what you consider to be a flipper as well, I would bet that everyone of us just about has bought an animal or got one in on a group trade that we didn't really need or later decided we didn't have room for and then sell it which is essential flipping but is that what we're talking about here. I've bought reptiles from local classified ads usually from people who have no idea how to care for the animals and let them go very cheap and some times I end up selling them and some times I don't. If I tell the person I won't sell it then I stick to my word but if no such arrangement is made then it is my right to do with it as I please. As for the animals moving from one home to another as long as it is done quickly and properly I don't really think animal cares. I'm not saying they should be shipped multiple times in a matter of weeks but a couple of times in their life I don't think makes any difference to them as long as they are set up properly when they get where they're going.
But if when you say "flipping" you're referring to someone who intentionally buys animals they can not properly house and have no clue as to how to properly care for simply for the purpose of moving them quickly for a profit then yes I would definitely say I think it's unethical. I believe thats what most of us are thinking of when we say flipping but the deffiniton is not that black and white is it?

I see no problem with buying other animals to re-sell AS LONG AS they are appropriately quarrentined, are known to be feeding well, and NOT represented as "I bred them myself!"

Someone that scoops up animals on Craigslist (or from other breeders!), then tries to resell them two days later as "I produced this clutch of [whatever]!"? On my Do-Not-Buy list, for good. No matter how much they've got something I want.

Someone that buys a lot of animals from someone, quarrentines them for whatever appropriate period is for that species (at LEAST a month, no exceptions!), pulls any non-eating/non-thriving animals, then re-sells them? Even if they don't *explicitely* mark them as "I bought them from someone else", as long as they don't try to claim they're the producers? Even if the lot was intentionally, specifically bought for re-sale? I really have no problem buying from them.

I "flip" on the very small scale regarding cresties. As in, I'll buy juvies from other breeders (or yes, even Petco) that I intend to grow out and see how they look as adults. Now, I buy them with the intent to keep them in my own colonies. But if they don't grow out as expected (especially with reds and dalmatians), or are the wrong gender for a project (grr stupid male-heavy species).

NOTHING leaves my house without at least a month's quarrentine (usually 2 or more, since I'm keeping them to grow out, anyways.) Personally, I color-code my tubs at shows, with a key on the table. One color dot says "I produced this animal myself", a second "I did not produce it, known breeder/parentage", and a third "did not produce/no genetic info".

I don't have too much of a problem with it when the proper info is disclosed. I've done it myself. I've taken in trades and such in lieu of payment and even disclosed to the person that I am going to resell it, but I have never claimed them as my own. I do, however, have a major problem with fake breeders who buy animals really cheap on CL or wherever and in turn double the price and claim them to be thier own. We've been dealing with a guy like that around here. We unfortunately traded a gorgeous spider ball (produced by Mike Schofield) to him before we knew what he was. I've seen it up for grabs on CL and here on Fauna. I won't name any names, but he does this a lot here in NE Ohio and lots of people know who he is and what he does, although he talks a big game and brags about being a major breeder. He for sure will never get his greedy hands on any animal I ever produce.

Originally Posted by dheideman

I see no problem with buying other animals to re-sell AS LONG AS they are appropriately quarrentined, are known to be feeding well, and NOT represented as "I bred them myself!"

Someone that scoops up animals on Craigslist (or from other breeders!), then tries to resell them two days later as "I produced this clutch of [whatever]!"? On my Do-Not-Buy list, for good. No matter how much they've got something I want.

Someone that buys a lot of animals from someone, quarrentines them for whatever appropriate period is for that species (at LEAST a month, no exceptions!), pulls any non-eating/non-thriving animals, then re-sells them? Even if they don't *explicitely* mark them as "I bought them from someone else", as long as they don't try to claim they're the producers? Even if the lot was intentionally, specifically bought for re-sale? I really have no problem buying from them.

I "flip" on the very small scale regarding cresties. As in, I'll buy juvies from other breeders (or yes, even Petco) that I intend to grow out and see how they look as adults. Now, I buy them with the intent to keep them in my own colonies. But if they don't grow out as expected (especially with reds and dalmatians), or are the wrong gender for a project (grr stupid male-heavy species).

NOTHING leaves my house without at least a month's quarrentine (usually 2 or more, since I'm keeping them to grow out, anyways.) Personally, I color-code my tubs at shows, with a key on the table. One color dot says "I produced this animal myself", a second "I did not produce it, known breeder/parentage", and a third "did not produce/no genetic info".

Good post. I forgot to add that about quarantine. I will not sell someone a sick animal to "make it someone else's problem". I've seen that happen a lot too!

It's the lack of quarantine that disturbs me the most about flipping. I'm sure there are a few out there that practice better procedures then that, but I haven't met a one. Usually the animal is up for sale within a few days of arrival. That speaks highly to me of someone that's about the money, and not about the animals well being. I'd much rather pay a higher price for an animal that I know was cared for properly.

I picked option B because that one seemed to fit my feelings the best out of the three.

People who buy whole collections and then put them up for sale as soon as they get them are the people I have a problem with. First of all, they are only doing it for the money and buying from them is not supporting a fellow herper. Secondly is the animals they sell are definately going to be stressed being shipped from door to door to door and going from one environment to another. I don't care what they say about loving the hobby, they are just in it for the money and that is why most of them don't last that long in this business.