Truth Behind Carolina Reptiles/ NCREPTILES

Originally Posted by lanceheads

Mr. Dove,
What illegal animals are you referring to? I must have missed it on another post. Sorry.
Randal Berry

One of my pet peeves that I did not specifically identify because it may side track this thread but since you did ask.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=124063
Title 21 CFR 1240.62
1240.62 Turtles intrastate and interstate requirements
(a) Definition. As used in this section the term "turtles" includes all animals commonly known as turtles, tortoises, terrapins, and all other animals of the order Testudinata, class Reptilia, except marine species (families Dermachelidae and Chelonidae).
(b) Sales; general prohibition. Except as otherwise provided in this section, viable turtle eggs and live turtles with a carapace length of less than 4 inches shall not be sold, held for sale, or offered for any other type of commercial or public distribution.
(c) Destruction of turtles or turtle eggs; criminal penalties.
(1) Any viable turtle eggs or live turtles with a carapace length of less than 4 inches which are held for sale or offered for any other type of commercial or public distribution shall be subject to destruction in a humane manner by or under the supervision of an officer or employee of the Food and Drug Administration in accordance with the following procedures:
(i) Any District Office of the Food and Drug Administration, upon detecting viable turtle eggs or live turtles with a carapace length of less than 4 inches which are held for sale or offered for any other type of commercial or public distribution, shall serve upon the person in whose possession such turtles or turtle eggs are found a written demand that such turtles or turtle eggs be destroyed in a humane manner under the supervision of said District Office, within 10 working days from the date of promulgation of the demand. The demand shall recite with particularity the facts which justify the demand. After service of the demand, the person in possession of the turtles or turtle eggs shall not sell, distribute, or otherwise dispose of any of the turtles or turtle eggs except to destroy them under the supervision of the District Office, unless and until the Director of the Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition with draws the demand for destruction after an appeal pursuant to paragraph (c)(1)(ii) of this section.
(ii) The person on whom the demand for destruction is served may either comply with the demand or, within 10 working days from the date of its promulgation, appeal the demand for destruction to the Director of the Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition, Food and Drug Administration, 200 C St. SW., Washington, DC 20204. The demand for destruction may also be appealed within the same period of 10 working days by any other person having a pecuniary interest in such turtles or turtle eggs. In the event of such an appeal, the Center Director shall provide an opportunity for hearing by written notice to the appellant(s) specifying a time and place for the hearing, to be held within 14 days from the date of notice, but not within less than 7 days unless by agreement with the appellant(s).
(iii) Appearance by any appellant at the hearing may be by mail or in person, with or without counsel. The hearing shall be conducted by the Center Director or his designee, and a written summary of the proceedings shall be prepared by the person presiding. Any appellant shall have the right to hear and to question the evidence on which the demand for destruction is based, including the right to cross-examine witnesses, and he may present oral or written evidence in response to the demand.
(iv) If, based on the evidence presented at the hearing, the Center Director finds that the turtles or turtle eggs were held for sale or offered for any other type of commercial or public distribution in violation of this section, he shall affirm the demand that they be destroyed under the supervision of an officer or employee of the Food and Drug Administration; otherwise, the Center Director shall issue a written notice that the prior demand by the District Office is withdrawn. If the Center Director affirms the demand for destruction he shall order that the destruction be accomplished in a humane manner within 10 working days from the date of the promulgation of his decision. The Center Director's decision shall be accompanied by a statement of the reasons for the decision. The decision of the Center Director shall constitute final agency action, reviewable in the courts.
(v) If there is no appeal to the Director of the Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition from the demand by the Food and Drug Administration District Office and the person in possession of the turtles or turtle eggs fails to destroy them within 10 working days, or if the demand is affirmed by the Director of the Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition after an appeal and the person in possession of the turtles or turtle eggs fails to destroy them within 10 working days, the District Office shall designate an officer or employee to destroy the turtles or turtle eggs. It shall be unlawful to prevent or to attempt to prevent such destruction of turtles or turtle eggs by the officer or employee designated by the District Office. Such destruction will be stayed if so ordered by a court pursuant to an action for review in the courts as provided in paragraph (c)(1)(iv) of this section.
(2) Any person who violates any provision of this section, including but not limited to any person who sells, offers for sale, or offers for any other type of commercial or public distribution viable turtle eggs or live turtles with a carapace length of less than 4 inches, or who refuses to comply with a valid final demand for destruction of turtles or turtle eggs (either an unappealed demand by an FDA District Office or a demand which has been affirmed by the Director of the Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition pursuant to appeal), or who fails to comply withthe requirement in such a demand that the manner of destruction be humane, shall be subject to a fine of not more than $1,000 or imprisonment for not more than 1 year, or both, for each violation, in accordance with section 368 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. 271).
(d) Exceptions. The provisions of this section are not applicable to:
(1) The sale, holding for sale, and distribution of live turtles and viable turtle eggs for bona fide scientific, educational, or exhibitional purposes, other than use as pets.
(2) The sale, holding for sale, and distribution of live turtles and viable turtle eggs not in connection with a business.
(3) The sale, holding for sale, and distribution of live turtles and turtle eggs intended for export only, provided that the outside of the shipping package is conspicuously labeled "for export only."
(4) Marine turtles excluded from this regulation under the provisions of paragraph (a) of this section and eggs of such turtles.
(e) Petitions. The Commissioner of Food and Drugs, either on his own initiative or on behalf of any interested person who has submitted a petition, may publish a proposal to amend this regulation. Any such petition shall include an adequate factual basis to support the petition, and will be published for comment if it contains reasonable grounds for the proposed regulation. A petition requesting such a regulation, which would amend this regulation, shall be submitted to the Dockets Management Branch, Food and Drug Administration, Room 4-62, Parklawn Building, 5600 Fishers Lane, Rockville, MD 20857.
[40 FR 22545, May 23, 1975, as amended at 46 FR 8461, Jan. 27 1981; 48 FR 11431, Mar. 18, 1983; 54 FR 24900, June 12, 1989]

I have heard all the excuses attempting to circumvent this law but law is law and just because someone else is doing it does not make it right for them or another to do so.

I understand that the law is the law, but the law came into affect because some children were sticking turtles in their mouths and getting salmonella. I've never heard of the law actually being enforced and everyone from the local pet store to breeders are selling turtles and tortoises at under 4 inches. In fact, it seems as though the "can only be sold for educational purposes" statement is nothing but a poorly disguised loophole allowing individual's to sell them at that size.

I personally don't know William, nor have I ever done business and I'm not defending him in any way, but I actually find this post amuzing as this is an obvious rant from a scorned ex... If Jan's gonna accuse William of such harsh accusations then it's only fair she posts the proof of his actions.

As far as the child is concerned... The diaper rash can happen in a number ways.. not just from sitting in a urine soaked diaper. Certain foods can cause it, antibiotics can cause it, a stool that is passed can cause a mild rash too, as can diarrhea... Chaffing or rubbing from the diaper or clothing can cause a rash, or even certain baby products used like wipes, lotions, or generic brand diapers....

Jan's just as much at fault for the child's lack of adequet care as his own father is if the accusations are true. You were living in the same household, Jan, therefore as an adult you held the same responsibilities to ensure the child is taken care of... As well as the animals in the house. You claimed you were a business partner with William during your relationship, so you should've held the same kind of responsibility as William did and take care of the animals, including the dogs, unless his dogs wanted to kill you for some reason...

Also, coming from mentally abusive relationships myself, I did not once hesitate to leave once the problems started to come around because mental abuse usually leads to physical abuse, therefore if a woman continue to waits because she "loves" her husband/boyfriend, or thinks he can change, then it is ultimately her fault for staying and enduring the cruelty from their significant other. Authorities should be involved if domestic disputes arise, especially if young children are present durning such altercations... waiting 3 years to "blow the whistle" on William is nothing more than a simple case of lover scorned, especially if it is in the agenda to ruin the ex's business and reptutation.

Quote:
i also bought a central american boa from them around a month ago he has already eaten around 8 times and shed 3 times hes groing like a weed and hasnt had any problems. So if he was kept in those kind of conditions he would have had some type of skin problems or maybe even infections
Thanks Mitchel Lack

Damn, your Boa shed 3 times in one month!

So far I have to agree that it sounds like a bitter woman attempting to ruin her (ex)husbands reputation.

It would help who ever is telling the truth(Bill), if the former business partner were to come on here and tell his own story.
Bill could you post any reports from Animal Control, the ASPCA, or whatever authorities were involved in the animal abuse claim. If you are helping them with reptile cases then you must be in contact with them. Maybe the officer can come on here and post his story also.
If you have any Police reports that would prove your claim that your (ex)wife is a violent person and has assaulted you it would really discredit her original post.

I do understand domestic violence but have to wonder. If Bill has been neglecting the animals to death(abuse,) and abusing you(Jan) for 3 years, why on earth would you leave him alone with your child who is in diapers?

If he were as abusive as you claim, weren't you afraid he would hurt your child, and I am not talking about diaper rash.

I have set here and read this thread and I can only say .....WOW.
I have know in the past a girl that was abused but she kept it quiet and never told a soul, not even family. Until the day the abuse turn to her child, on that day she snapped and drove herself and child to the nearest police station. I am not here making judgments, I do understand that emotional abuse can and does make you a captive but once it get turn to you kids I would think it was time to run. Have you filed a case with you district attorny?

As far as Williams reply goes, I would exspect him to say that his ex was lying(I'm not saying he did it) He says that his ex-partner and he are still friends so anything the partner would say is suspect. It does however seem that I have seen several bad guy post about Carolina reptile exchange, is this the same one? I wish someone would just post some proof.

Now to the op, It would seem to me the the first thing you should have done would go striaght to the police not the B.O.I. If he is this monster (I am not saying you are not telling the truth) Instead of coming here and warning him to clean up his act and cages alone with this graveyard you mentioned you should have reported to the humane socity and have them handle it.

The one thing that sticks in my mind is that William mentioned that she has did this to him and several other EXs before.

I think that until some proof is shown that a grain of salt is taken with what either person says.

Originally Posted by Rabid Hobbit

I have set here and read this thread and I can only say .....WOW.
I have know in the past a girl that was abused but she kept it quiet and never told a soul, not even family. Until the day the abuse turn to her child, on that day she snapped and drove herself and child to the nearest police station. I am not here making judgments, I do understand that emotional abuse can and does make you a captive but once it get turn to you kids I would think it was time to run. Have you filed a case with you district attorny?

As far as Williams reply goes, I would exspect him to say that his ex was lying(I'm not saying he did it) He says that his ex-partner and he are still friends so anything the partner would say is suspect. It does however seem that I have seen several bad guy post about Carolina reptile exchange, is this the same one? I wish someone would just post some proof.

Now to the op, It would seem to me the the first thing you should have done would go striaght to the police not the B.O.I. If he is this monster (I am not saying you are not telling the truth) Instead of coming here and warning him to clean up his act and cages alone with this graveyard you mentioned you should have reported to the humane socity and have them handle it.

The one thing that sticks in my mind is that William mentioned that she has did this to him and several other EXs before.

I think that until some proof is shown that a grain of salt is taken with what either person says.

I don't believe it is the same company. If it was, I'd think the direction of this thread would have been a.. little different.

Originally Posted by Rabid Hobbit

It does however seem that I have seen several bad guy post about Carolina reptile exchange, is this the same one?

Carolina Reptile Exchange was Bruce Eisenmann's outfit. Eisenmann is one of the biggest liars, conmen, thieves that ever had a link to the reptile business.

Even if Mr. Davis were guilty of everything that he has been accused of in this thread he would not hold a candle to Eisenmann.

I am with the group that takes the thread with a grain of salt due to the relationship between the OP and Carolina Reptiles. Until someone that has actually done business with William Davis has a problem that is brought here then I won't hold what an ex has to say against him.

She obviously helped out with the care of the animals or she would not be able to state what the deficiencies are. If she was so concerned why didn't she bring these things up when they were "happily" married. Additionally, if she was involved with the care of the animals she's as much to blame as he is. She probably doesn't care because she will be getting out and this thread is an attempt to hurt William's business on her way.

The OP could be telling the absolute truth, but so could William. So until I see proof from either party, I don't think I'd form a opinion. At best I think her claims are exagerated, i.e. "lost half the inventory". As far as the abuse, it could be true, and there's no real way to say either way. Abuse victims often CANNOT help themselves or others, or pets, most people who have been IN a abusive relationship know this, and others stating that THEY would have done xx don't know what it's like. Mental and emotional controls are often much harder to break than physical ones. I'd leave that alone, instead of saying "You should have helped, you're to blame, or why didn't you???"
Waiting for proof to be posted is,
Theresa Baker

Hey, where's Jan anyway? I thought she said she was going to be posting pics and proof. Or is this a hit and run?