Midwest Tongs

They still refuse to answer my emails or return a phone call.

I posted about this on the BC forum and the thread was immediately removed.

I guess people think it's OK for this company to screw over people.

I want my order or my money back.

are ok too. I just got back from Tinley and bought my first hook from them. I really like it. Very light weight and strong.

My only, although tiny, complaint was that when I asked for a receipt, they all looked at each other like I was insane. They didn't have receipts, or give receipts. And when I asked for a business card, just to write what I bought on it, they didn't have them either. I thought that was so weird. But I have no doubt that they have a great product.

As for the original post. I agree, there should be a better return policy as long as you don't have the product in use and simply changed your mind.

The refund thing is a no brainer. You should get your money ASAP. Good luck to both.

Troy Dozier

I love MIdwest products and support. Every time I have called Dana, he immediately answered the phone and took care of any questions or concerns. A year after I bought a pair of Gentle Giants, they were starting to stick a little. I had them with me at the Columbia Show for obvious reasons. While talking to him, I mentioned that they were sticking a bit and asked if there was somewhere I could oil or something. Without hesitation, he took my pair and handed me a brand new pair. No questions asked.

I have not used ACE, but they do look like good quality. But in my experience, Midwest is the best.

SPJ, something does not sound right. I am not calling you a liar by any means. But maybe communication got crossed. It just seems odd to me that they are not talking to you. It goes against my experience. But who knows. I hope everything gets worked out. I am sorry you are having to go through the hassle and frustration.

I work with venomous snakes only

I am BY FAR not a novice in this area and have dealt with thousands of venomous snakes, domestic and exotic

The tongs are extremely dangerous to the animal, and the way the upper jaw fits into the lower really pinches the animals. I work with venomous snakes only, and this is unacceptable. When this tong is used the animal often flings and jerks in response to the poor design and pinching.

Those quotes are still cracking me up. I know people that don't even work with hots that know how Pillstroms work. I have never heard an experienced hot keeper recommend them for anything but removing cage items, removing water bowls, or offering prey items, etc. This includes Midwest. That is why they designed the Gentle Giant. And sorry to be a bit rude, but anyone that claims to have worked with "thousands" of hots and does not know such basics about handling equipment, I would not want for a customer either. Just my opinion.

My only, although tiny, complaint was that when I asked for a receipt, they all looked at each other like I was insane. They didn't have receipts, or give receipts.

When I bought from them at the KC show they gave me a receipt. So strange. They were really great about everything. I saw them at Tinley and didn't recognize any of them from the KC show though.

SPJ, I hope you get your issue resolved with them.

Regardless of how the tongs work, the customer was unhappy.


"Those quotes are still cracking me up. I know people that don't even work with hots that know how Pillstroms work. "

LOL what the heck is a Pillstroms. Which is what I said to Midwest. Your comments crack ME up. I'm sure you and your friends know how a lot of things work, but, you obviously don't know how customer service works.

"I have never heard an experienced hot keeper recommend them for anything but removing cage items, removing water bowls, or offering prey items, etc."

These tongs are useless for this task too. I prefer trap boxes (like a good little venomous keeper). That way I can clean the enclosure well, not do a half assed job of it. Tongs and hooks are for the animals, if you have to use it on cage accessories that implies that you are doing something wrong or at least dangerous.

" This includes Midwest. That is why they designed the Gentle Giant. And sorry to be a bit rude, but anyone that claims to have worked with "thousands" of hots and does not know such basics about handling equipment, I would not want for a customer either. Just my opinion."

AND THAT is exactly the snotty attitude I was talking about. How dare you question my experience, who are you to talk to me like that. Nobody. If I was your customer, snotty comments like that would have me spending my $ at any other company. You (like Midwest) know nothing about me or my business. If you were MY customer I would bend over backwards to make you happy, even if you are a jerk. The personal quality of a customer is not in the equation. And if YOU knew anything about hots, "the basics" are don't get bit. No more complex than that.

There are also others who have had problems with them, yet, you and your oh so knowledgable buddies have failed to notice that. Not just refund of money, but, lousy customer service. And I feel you can keep your opinion. That kills me (LOL) that's like saying "Don't take this the wrong way" that comes from someone who is out to insult. Goes right with "just my opinion". You meant to be insulting and that right there makes "just my opinion" kind of a useless statement. You should have just said "I think your a jerk". Jerk I may be, but, I'm still right about customer service. They should help me as well as the others who have complaints. And that cost them money and is going to put it in someone else's company.

Anybody want to buy a tong shaped door stop?


David Furphy
AKN Venom & Exotics
10 years in venomous and
headed for another 10


4.4 C.Molossus
2.2 C.V. Helleri
4.8 C.Scutulatus
1.2 B.Gabonica
1.1 C.Cerastes
1.1 Cerastes
2.6 C.L.Klauberi
3.3 Hypomelanistic C.Atrox
1.0 C.Ruber
1.1 S.C.Tergiminus
5.10 C.V.Oreganus
8.12 C.Atrox
2.2 B.Arietans

And various others.


And if you want pics you'll have to BUY something, instead of making snotty comments about someone you know nothing about. Remember rule #1

I've got a couple Midwest tongs and hooks and they work fine for me. I never dealt with the company directly so I can't really comment on their customer service. As an unbiased party looking at both sides I have to say you came on pretty strong in your original email David. You essentially said "you have a crappy product and I want something else". Being a little more friendly would most likely have made things much easier on you. Had you emailed/called and said that what you purchased wasn't working out and you'd like to trade it toward another product you may have gotten a different response completely. Perhaps not. In any event, I don't see that Midwest has any "obligation" to take what you bought back. I would bet that they have done it before for other customers but the way you came off I doubt they want to do any favors for you.

Just my two cents.

How dare you question my experience

Ahh. That reply alone tells me a book. I am sorry, but if you know trapboxes, I simply cannot understand not knowing what Pillstroms are. I can most certainly see how I would come off "snotty" (the nicest term that has been used yet ). But it is my opinion. And I would not knowingly sell you anything or purchase anything from you. I go with my gut. But I will refrain from elaborating on what my gut tells me.

Yes, I think you should get a refund. You made a mistake. You bought the wrong product. You did not know any better. So be it. I have bought the wrong car parts before. And I was pleased to exchange them for what I needed. I think you should get the same courtesy. But as an example (that I did not do by the way lol), if I walked in complaining that the spark plug wires they sold me are "useless and dangerous" because they would not work in my car stereo, I may not get good customer service.

All of our tongs and hooks came from midwest, never had a problem with them whatsoever. A few of the tongs had some clearance issues for us depending on application but were easily modified with rubber "boots" or foam sleeving to suit our specific needs, but that has nothing to do with them nor thier quality of products or service. A+

Just got off the phone with Dana, planning next year's venomous conference in Orlando.

Dana says that he successfully filed the claim with UPS, but UPS has not paid up. So no, he doesn't have your money.

It's funny, because normally Dana jumps right onto problems like this and sends out more gear pronto. My guess is that by slamming him all over the Internet you've made sure he would rather do it by the book. I don't blame him much. Not saying that this is the case here, but some people try to scam UPS by claiming that the package was never delivered when in fact the driver does have a record of delivery. So UPS takes the time to investigate when a claim is filed. That's only reasonable.

David Furphy, you apparently bought a pair of cage tongs from a herp show vendor who bought them from Midwest. These tongs are not misrepresented by Midwest in any way - they're the old Pilstrom style, and everybody knows that they are not ideal for use on snakes. Where they really shine is for pulling dirty waterbowls and cage furniture, or for feeding crocodilians large food items. They are great for those jobs. That is all they've ever been used for in any zoo or herp facility I've ever worked in or visited. I'm honestly surprised that with all the experience you claim, you never heard anyone mention this. It really is common knowledge.

Midwest does stand behind the quality manufacturing of their product, but last I checked they don't promise that any one tool will be suitable for doing every kind of job. It's as if you had bought a flourescent glass tube as cage lighting, then decided to use the lightbulb to tube snakes with. Then you complain that the lightbulb is an unsafe snake tubing tool and you want your money back. Well duuuh, you're right, but that is not a good reason to return the product. What if you bought a Midwest Minihook and tried to use it on a 5' Gaboon viper and it broke? Whose fault would that be? Midwest's fault for making an excellent tool that you misused, or your fault for picking the wrong tool for the job?

If you have any experience at all handling any kind of snakes, or for that matter if you had a functioning pair of eyeballs, you could have looked at the product before you bought it and figured out what kind of tool it was. It's not to squeeze snakes in. It's a cage tong. You move waterbowls with it. It works great for that purpose, which is why I keep a few around for the cobras who like to leave me wet presents. The Midwest version of the original Pilstrom head is solidly constructed out of aircraft grade materials, and it can hold up a big nasty waterbowl brimming with yucky "cobra presents". It's a wonderful timesaving tool and I'm glad to have one. I can swap waterbowls straight out of the cage without needing to move the snakes around.

There is some controversy as to whether the Pilstrom style tong should ever be used on live snakes. As someone who does a lot of work with snakes in a vet clinic, I say no - the shearing force placed on a snake's spine by the scissor style tong is unsafe for the animal. Some folks disagree with me, and I've been yelled at and called nasty names for stating my point of view. Of course the good old boys at the rattlesnake roundups have been using Pilstroms for years, but we all know what happens to their victims. Long term captive health and husbandry is not their goal.

Pilstroms can be made relatively safe for snake handling purposes with some foam rubber and electrical tape. You might want to give that a try. I have an adapted pair of Pilstroms for field use and for reaching into narrow crevices that has been safety padded, and they work fine as long as the snake is not lifted all the way off the ground with them. They're no good to lift waterbowls with once you pad them, so I also keep a "bare pair" around for moving cage furniture. You might even want to keep yours around for the same use unpadded. I certainly would.

Again, Dana normally fixes problems like this immediately. He goes well beyond the expectations of normal customer service and really goes the extra mile to take care of people. In your situation, this is a product you bought from a vendor rather than directly from Midwest. He can't afford to swap it for the much more expensive Gentle Giant, especially for what looks like a pretty silly reason - you picked the wrong tool for the job and now you're trying to make that the manufacturer's fault. And your approach was not the most courteous. So again I suspect he's going to play this one by the book, and warrant only that the tool is sturdy and free of manufacturing defects. Which it is. It's an exellent cage tong, and if you safety pad it, it has some limited applications in handling.

You have a very good tool. There is nothing wrong with it; it is a well made, sturdy cage tong. I get a lot of good use out of mine; it saves me a lot of time and effort to move cage furniture around without needing to move the snakes first. You're just unhappy because you can't use it to do a job that it just isn't the right tool for. No fair to try to make that the manufacturer's fault.

Just got off the phone with Dana, planning next year's venomous conference in Orlando.

Dana says that he successfully filed the claim with UPS, but UPS has not paid up. So no, he doesn't have your money.

It's funny, because normally Dana jumps right onto problems like this and sends out more gear pronto. My guess is that by slamming him all over the Internet you've made sure he would rather do it by the book. I don't blame him much. Not saying that this is the case here, but some people try to scam UPS by claiming that the package was never delivered when in fact the driver does have a record of delivery. So UPS takes the time to investigate when a claim is filed. That's only reasonable.

For your information, the hook was supposed to be delivered on 8/9/04. It never made it. The yracking number STILL says it is in transit. UPS started a tracer BASED UPON MY CALL. It has been closed and they stated the claim has been paid.
I started posting when these people couldn't return a friggin email or phone call AFTER I spoke with UPS and found out the calim was resolved.

I finally got a reply to one of my emails today. They asked for a day and time to call me since they claim to have called 3 times and got an answering machine. I can vouch for the fact that I have received hang ups when I check the messages (call listed but no message). Why they just did not leave a message is beyond me.

It is now 10/12, over 2 months since the package got lost in transit. I was patient. But after the BS I went trhu trying to get an order from Neodesha, I do not have the same level of patience I used to have.

A simple reply to one of my emails with a heads up as to what was going on could have avoided ALL OF THIS.