Ok Is There A Fourth Type Of Albino??

Thanks for the info Kelli & Chris and everyone. This thread has done me alot of good as Im learning alot that I never knew. So inorder to produce a new strain of albino it would have to basicaly be luck of the draw (breeding pair)? What is geneticaly different between the 3 strains that are out right now? They are all 3 T+ I think you guys said (I think)? Does anyone have a pic they could post of the 4th strain? Chris said there was one in the older version of The Leopard Gecko Manul. Is there any major visible differences between it and the other 3 strains? It seems like I would have heard somthing about it if its been out for years already. But then again I am fairly new to this hobby. I have had leos and tokays since I was 9 but am new to the breeding ,genetics, morphs and all that fun stuff. I never use to know there were different morphs of leos until I was about 17. Are these albinos on the market? I am very interested to see a pic. Is it possible for anyone of us to produce a new strain of albino just from breeding some of our leos? Say I buy a leo from Kelli and 1 from Robin, Is it possible that each one of them could be carring an albino gene for a new strain but never showed it , or in there offspring because none of the leos its been paired with had the same strain (gene)? So they could have had this gene that has been passed down for generatinos but never showed it or produced it because none of there mates had the gene. But they gave the gene to there offsping and it got passed along for a while until 1 day finding a mate that has had the same gene passed down to it as well. Could a gene stay with each generation without ever being shown for a long while? Im not sure if I worded what Im trying to ask right. Looking back at what Ive wrote I starting to confuse myself. I think you guys will be able to interpret what Im asking (I hope)lol. I realy want to see how many new strains occur in the future and what they look like.

no i do get genetics! and all of the terms no thanx to anyone but my own self !

personally i do not think you do. i would suggest more research and with that read it as scientific information based on facts rather believing " stuff" you have heard and simple genetics and base your conclusions on factual information rather than baseless opinions

personally you have misunderstood everything i have said and the questions i have asked ..... and your negative -outlook is interfering with your ability to accept what someone says the way it was meant ! or to not take it the wrong way ! i have alot of problems too but i dont start BS-accusations because someone reminds me of my problems in a word ...or i would never be able to speak to anyone !

I would also like to see a pic of the leshock strain.
I also wanted to know if hypo and super hypo have anything to do with genetics or is it just a line bred trate
thanks,
chuck

personally you have misunderstood everything i have said and the questions i have asked ..... and your negative -outlook is interfering with your ability to accept what someone says the way it was meant ! or to not take it the wrong way ! i have alot of problems too but i dont start BS-accusations because someone reminds me of my problems in a word ...or i would never be able to speak to anyone !

that has absolutely nothing to do with what i am saying.... we, chris and kelli especially have tried several times to explain it to you and everytime it seems as though you just can not understand it... it has nothing to do with a word now it has to do with what has already been tried to be explained.

Is it possible for anyone of us to produce a new strain of albino just from breeding some of our leos?

possible but not necessisarily probable. our main chance at getting new morphs is getting in new WC stock establishing them and breeding them. Currently the US is not trading with middle eastern countries and places like pakastan i believe is closed to animal exportation period. So it will most likely be some time before we see any "new" morphs

I also wanted to know if hypo and super hypo have anything to do with genetics or is it just a line bred trate

some say dominant.... i do n ot think so... it is a very strong gene that has alot of influcence...... co-dominant possibly but it is not exactly known what it is.... its either a co-dominant trait or a very strong line bred trait


as far as the leshock albino i will let justyn explain them to you. there are none on the market though and very few pictures of them are floating around. justyn is working with one het male. right now it is unknow if it is another (incompatable from the other three strains) form of albinims or not

This isn't directed to anyone inpoeticular, but in addition to some of the good information that has been posted in this thread already, for those who know little about basic genetics the following link has some good info to get you started in the right direction anyway, hopefully.

http://www.compusmart.ab.ca/kbush/geckogenetics.htm

Aaron asked:

Chris said there was one in the older version of The Leopard Gecko Manul. Is there any major visible differences between it and the other 3 strains?

Personally, I think the Leshock albino looks like either a dark Tremper (what we use to see in 99 to 2001 before Ron started his 'incubation' technique) or it looks like the Bell line. There use to be a 'bird's-eye-view" photo of it on Mark's site (god if I remeber the address). The photo in the 1998 printing of <u>The Leopard Gecko Manual</u> is a side photo, which shows the eye some. The eye looks quite similar to that of the Tremper albino. But as it's been mentioned, we won't know until someone proves it out. I think the best option for doing this would be for Justyn to take his het male and breed it to a few plain, run of the mill, normals. Incubate for NOTHING but females and then cross the het male back to those possible hets. I would then incubate all eggs from the het male X possible hets for male, hope for an albino and then breed the albino to a het tremper, rainwater, or bell. I think it would be pointless to breed it into the rainwater gene, just merely because of how the leshock albino looks, but by doing so would cover all 3 strains.

Now I believe it was you or 1 other individual that didn't understand the possible het thing. I'd have to sift through lots of post. So in general and not directed at anyone here's how possible hets work.

When you breed a fully heterozygous, denoted by Aa, (seen in classified ads or on sites as 100% hets) to another fully heterozygous you will get the following in a percentage ratio:

Let A = normal
let a = albino

25% AA (completely normal)
50% Aa (heterozygous, but look exactly the same as the AA normal)
25% aa (albino)

BUT, phenotypically (visually) the ratio appears as 75% normals and 25% albino. Also keep in mind that these percentage outcomes are also a probability. So anyway, since 75% of the offspring LOOK normal, they are called 66% hets because 2 out of the 3 normals are het, but you don't know which without breeding.

When you breed a 100% het to a normal you'll get:

50% AA (normal)
50% Aa (normal, heterozygous for albino)

But this time, ALL offspring look normal. So you now have a 50% chance of any of those normals being heterozygous, thus the term 50% het.

The best 2 ways to produce hets (100% hets) though is by breeding an albino to a het or an albino to a normal. By breeding an albino to a het you'll get:

50% Aa (normal, het for albino)
50% aa (albino)

Reason this is best is because all the normals are het. There's no other normals from the cross to question their genetic background.

By breeding albino to normal:

100% Aa (all offspring are hets).

One other thing, you'll notice that some people say just het or heterozygous and some will say 100% het. They are 1 in the same term. I hope everyone call follow everything said above. If not, just look at the link below. I put that page up back in 1999. It's a little more visual and hopefully a lot more easier to understand. I'm going to edit it later today to make it a little more easier to follow.

Simple Genetics

i completely understood every answer , for the facts that i did not know (and was actually asking for ) you guys helped me with quite a few things ! thank you !!!! its just the ones you answered that i wasnt really asking seriously ..... my points and questions are sounding -misleading when i went back and read it again ..... darn-hard to put it exactly how its meant by typing it (guess this would be a great advantage , to still be in school ) guess my posts are confusing ... sorry everyone , i just type everything out pretty fast , and i seem to jump around a little too much on the topic , then only half way -finished they end up to be sooo long and just damn confusing ! guess most of my problems are with communication as well .....SUCH IS LIFE thank you again everyone for offering your help in the first place !!! really is appreciated

I'll be breeding my het Leshock to a Bell, Rainwater, and Tremper albinos (all incubated at 80 degrees). As well as blizzards, het. blizzards, stripes, jungles, hypos, etc. this year (80% incubated at 80 degrees, the rest 90 degrees). If I hatch out any albino from the het. Leshock to any of the three proven strains, we'll know. If not, I'll breed him to a good number of the poss. het offspring and see what I get. Either way the soonest I'll know is in early 2005, more like late 2005-early 2006. I didn't do much with him this year. So, this could mean I'll produce a whole bunch of worthless hets (hundreds), or I'll have a huge selection of Leshocks in the next couple of years. As for it being one fo the strains, I've looked at 5-6 pics of the Leshock albino, as well as talked to many people about the Leshock. I have a feeling if it proves out to be any, it's the Bell. Doesn't look like the Tremper, more like a Bell. Even the dark specimens have red eyes, just like the Bells. While the Tremper has more of a brown, and the Rainwater a grey eye. Not to mention that both the Leshock and the Bell lines came from captive stock, while the Wainwater and Tremper came form wild caught stock. Not to mention the first Leshock albino (female) was a jungle! Enough said, I have to gets ome sleep, got to drive to Ft. Worth tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Intense Herpetoculture

I'll be breeding my het Leshock to a Bell, Rainwater, and Tremper albinos (all incubated at 80 degrees). As well as blizzards, het. blizzards, stripes, jungles, hypos, etc. this year (80% incubated at 80 degrees, the rest 90 degrees). If I hatch out any albino from the het. Leshock to any of the three proven strains, we'll know. If not, I'll breed him to a good number of the poss. het offspring and see what I get. Either way the soonest I'll know is in early 2005, more like late 2005-early 2006. I didn't do much with him this year. So, this could mean I'll produce a whole bunch of worthless hets (hundreds), or I'll have a huge selection of Leshocks in the next couple of years. As for it being one fo the strains, I've looked at 5-6 pics of the Leshock albino, as well as talked to many people about the Leshock. I have a feeling if it proves out to be any, it's the Bell. Doesn't look like the Tremper, more like a Bell. Even the dark specimens have red eyes, just like the Bells. While the Tremper has more of a brown, and the Rainwater a grey eye. Not to mention that both the Leshock and the Bell lines came from captive stock, while the Wainwater and Tremper came form wild caught stock. Not to mention the first Leshock albino (female) was a jungle! Enough said, I have to gets ome sleep, got to drive to Ft. Worth tomorrow.

so its been over a year now and still no news??
whats going on any news out there

sorry to bring an old topic up just interested thats all!!