suddenly sick leo--help!

yvonne, please do keep on posting anything and everything you think of. it really is insightful, at least to me.

what kind of deficiency could cause a problem with blood clotting? would that be anything that i could prevent?

if parasites are environmental and can find their way into a habitat despite our best attempts at keeping them away...that is a really scary thought. since there were no parasites evident in this gecko how likely is it that the vet would find parasites in the others (even if they are present). is the presence of these undetectable single celled parasites a likely cause or do you think that is just the only thing the vet could think of?

If they were present in large enough quantities to cause the death of your poor boy, they should be detectable, just maybe not to the equipment at your vet's disposal...he'd have to send samples to a lab. Even with the gut contents, an overgrowth is detectable (C-diff is diagnosed by sending stool to a lab for analysis)
Vitamin K is essential for the clotting process...if you don't have enough of that, you bleed. Fortunately for humans, E-Coli present in our gut (its part of our natural gut flora) makes vitamin K our bodies can use; its a symbiotic relationship.(E-coli infections are caused by contaminated foods which cause an overgrowth) I don't know if reptiles use this same mechanism to convert vitamin K to usable form. I doubt there was anything you could have done to prevent this, especially since all your other animals are flourishing. Did he have a run of antibiotics, or did he eat an insect that came from a different source?

no he had never been on antibiotics or any medication. he was eating the same mealworms and occassional crickets dusted with leo ICB dust that all the others eat. there was nothing at all different about his husbandry or food.

Going with what LinzM posted earlier, was his location different, like was he near a vent or sink?

he was in a rack with all my other leo juvies/babies from this season. his tub was in the second row down. no vents, doors or sinks close by. the door to the room stays closed. there is a small room heater in the room on the floor close to but pointed away from the rack.

Originally Posted by cookreptiles

he also said that he could have had an infestation of single cell parasites but that those would not be visible after death so he suspects that was the cause of death.

That just seems so strange...As Yvonne pointed out, wouldn't a parasite - regardless of size - be rather apparent upon the sudden death of your poor little guy? mean, there have to be some presence of the parasite die-off, their respiration, their reproductive and digestive cycles, right?? I don't mean to criticize the vet - I'm sure you have a good one - but I just can't believe that there would be no trace on a parasitical infection...single OR multiple celled oranism.

I'm so glad you had the guts to get the necropsy done (I didn't) but I wish, for your sake and our information, that it had brought about some more definative answers...

Did you hemoccult the emesis? stupid question...
If you look at the upchuck there on the first page, it looks like it has dark brown material mixed up there with the mealies. I wonder why...it also looks kinda fat, like he threw up part of a blockage. I wonder if he had an irritation in his gut that grew into a stricture or narrower area that ended up bleeding out.
It's not like he was in an area that meant you held him or cared for him first or last...
It's just wierd, all this looks like a rapid and drastic blood loss caused the anemia...not a lack of vitamin K, just because of how quickly it happened. Do you know a nurse or doctor in your area so you can get your hands on a hemoccult testing kit? Maybe your home doctor would help you out here if you took some of that upchuck and his last naturally passed stool in, as it is a simple and cheap test to do.

well the vet that did the necropsy isn't my usual vet and i'm feeling rather critical of his evaluation myself. any time a vet or other professional says, "well i don't know" i feel a bit unsure of their opinion. i took the gecko to this vet because he could do it that same day and i thought that the sooner the better. i had taken a sick lizard to him once years ago and felt that he did diagnose and treat it correctly and so i trusted his knowledge to do the necropsy. i haven't had a necropsy done on any animal before, so this is my first experience with it and with choosing the vet to perform it.

I think hemocculture is only used for fecal specimen evaluations - at least in humans...I think they use different testing methodologies for reptiles - Didn't look like there was blood in the regurgitation, but the naked eye can't tell...did you notice anything weird?

(Apologies to Emily for the loss of such a beautiful, home-raised leo...I hope you don't think we're belittling your terrible loss in any way, I'm just interested in what Yvonne and you have to say for educational purposes)

I edited my last message there, don't miss it... off to take my car to sick bay, be back in a bit...