Bobby Hill - Varnyard Herps: Buyers Beware.

Originally Posted by bfb345

Bobby produced some beautiful tegus and i will say some of the best out there but he lacked 100% on the business side of things he had a great passion for these reptiles and i feel it is wrong to be dissing him.

To each his own. We obviously have had very different experiences with him. That's why this forum is here.

Originally Posted by TucsonRES

I have never had any dealing with Mr. Brown, but I do have a question for you. Do you also find it wrong that with all this passion you speak about to allegedly abandon a house full of animals to have them starve to death or escape and possibly destroy local ecosystems???

Remember, that one's past greatness does not negate the terrible that you do today.

Sorry, I meant Mr. Hill.

Originally Posted by ApexPredatorBoids

What I find "interesting," is how friendship dulls not only your killer instinct; but also your reading comprehension. EA's post clearly indicates what he feels was a quick progression from bobby never having bred anything; to bobby suddenly becoming the self-proclaimed master of all things tegu. There's nothing in there that says he hasn't currently produced anything. I can't vouch for whether or not the implied timeline is accurate, but I think that his meaning was clear, at least, to anyone whose ego doesn't get in the way of acknowledging that they've backed a dud.

Face it, you not only bought into the Varnyard hype, you're still apparently mesmerized by it. As it turns out, he's basically the Chris Johnson of tegus. I believe that they both carefully cultivated abrasive and overbearing online personas, apparently designed to instill trust in some; while intimidating others. For all we know, TSE was bobby's inspiration. If there are any sociological truths to be gleaned from online forums, I believe that one of them is that some people love an uncompromising personality; while others fear to tangle with one who wields it. An idea that many people have used to their own benefit. The argument could easily be made that both you and I fit into that category. Anyway, the only discernible difference between the two is that Chris Johnson at least sent his customers something, even if it wasn't the het they were expecting.

Also, unless Appalachian-American has officially be recognized as its own nationality, I think "hillbilly" is hardly racist. Possibly disparaging and vaguely bigoted; not even remotely racist. You're really grasping at straws, Wes. You have to realize by now that your friendship means nothing to bobby; so why be so willing to cling to that sunken ship? Is it really so hard for you to admit that you're wrong?

You question our morals, yet you're the one who - despite the occasional, half-hearted "bobby is in the wrong" - is the biggest supporter of the person who's ripped off quite a few people; as well as abandoning animals to slow death and cannibalism. He sure is a swell guy. I know that morality is a comparative and subjective concept, but your stance here may be making some people wonder which direction your own moral compass points. "Piling on" is only acceptable when the target isn't your buddy? "Interesting." I shudder to think of exactly what a friend of yours would have to do for you to condone their being piled-on and Kruse-ified, as you, yourself, have previously felt the need to publicly do to others.

Wonder all you want, for now the country is still free. However, perhaps a re-reading of what I've said and a moment of reflection upon what you know of me will allow you to realize that I am not standing by bobby that is in any way shape or form. Bobby that was, however, is a different matter.

Pile on all you want for what he's done, it's pretty damn crappy, but be honest. He wasn't always that way.

I also think you know well enough that while I would go to some extremes where I thought they were necessary, friend or not if you really want to debate it, (I've stuck up for some real turds who were wronged). Try not reading between the lines. It's less confusing for you guys who are not in my head hearing my thoughts. There's no agenda here, nothing to be saved, just facts to be set straight. Bobby that was, a friend and good guy. bobby that is, is neither. If you think I think otherwise, you're wrong.

Before I say anything, I'd like to say that I'm sorry that all these folks got ripped off. I absolutely do not condone what has occurred in that regard.

But I will also not sit back while you all attack Wes for defending what he used to know of Bobby and question in which direction moral compass points because of it. I used to know that same Bobby. Bobby and I spoke regularly for a number of years, and I considered him one of my dearest friends.

I am personally quite worried that something has happened to Bobby to cause whatever it is that's gone on. I can see financial issues happening to someone and them not holding up their end of a bargain. In fact, we all see it here all the time. I'm not saying that should absolve anyone of any debt, but sometimes, things happen.

But what I can't see is this abandoning/turning loose of tegus. No offense, Rich, but Bobby was one of the first to jump on Rich over the cornsnake release thing. From what he always told me, that's why he stopped being active here. The fact of the matter is that Bobby LOVED his tegus like no other. They were like kids to him. And I can guarantee that the Bobby I knew wouldn't just abandon them like that, unless something catastrophic happened in his life.

Amazing how quickly some of you would rather jump on someone the second they fall down, than worry about what's going on with them...and maybe attempt to get some answers to that end.

Originally Posted by Tere Salazar

Before I say anything, I'd like to say that I'm sorry that all these folks got ripped off. I absolutely do not condone what has occurred in that regard.

But I will also not sit back while you all attack Wes for defending what he used to know of Bobby and question in which direction moral compass points because of it. I used to know that same Bobby. Bobby and I spoke regularly for a number of years, and I considered him one of my dearest friends.

I am personally quite worried that something has happened to Bobby to cause whatever it is that's gone on. I can see financial issues happening to someone and them not holding up their end of a bargain. In fact, we all see it here all the time. I'm not saying that should absolve anyone of any debt, but sometimes, things happen.

But what I can't see is this abandoning/turning loose of tegus. No offense, Rich, but Bobby was one of the first to jump on Rich over the cornsnake release thing. From what he always told me, that's why he stopped being active here. The fact of the matter is that Bobby LOVED his tegus like no other. They were like kids to him. And I can guarantee that the Bobby I knew wouldn't just abandon them like that, unless something catastrophic happened in his life.

Amazing how quickly some of you would rather jump on someone the second they fall down, than worry about what's going on with them...and maybe attempt to get some answers to that end.

Just to point out this has been going on for over a year. He had ample time to step up and try to fix things. No such effort was made, and now you and a handful others are complaining people are calling him out on his latest of a series of unacceptable and criminal beheavior?

What gives you the right to do so? If he is such a great friend of yours as you think he is, can we presume you two are in contact and you know all the details of what has been going on with varnyard over the last 18 months? Or perhaps your great friend has abandoned you like he abandoned the customers he took money from.. what is the term here.. swindled.

Originally Posted by Wilomn

Wonder all you want, for now the country is still free. However, perhaps a re-reading of what I've said and a moment of reflection upon what you know of me will allow you to realize that I am not standing by bobby that is in any way shape or form. Bobby that was, however, is a different matter.

Pile on all you want for what he's done, it's pretty damn crappy, but be honest. He wasn't always that way.

I'm not even slightly convinced of that. There was always something about him that just sat wrong with me. There should be no differentiation between the two: is, was; it's all just bobby. Everything comes down to choices. Even if there was some catastrophic event that brought about his decisions to rip people off, there were still his own choices which led up to that point, as well as his own choices as to how to react after this alleged disaster struck.

You can try to blame it on whatever it is that happened to him; whether it be drugs, poor financial planning, or some names series of unfortunate events; but I don't believe that hardship brings out anything other than what is already inside. Which is why I have no qualms with saying that I believe this could have easily been a premeditated thing. We've all seen it happen before, and we've all seen that the thief often suffers no legal consequences for it. Monkey see, monkey do? Who's to say?

Originally Posted by Tere Salazar

Before I say anything, I'd like to say that I'm sorry that all these folks got ripped off. I absolutely do not condone what has occurred in that regard.

You certainly didn't appear to have any problem with how bobby dealt with the guy in Ireland. Did you not see that as him having ripped the guy off? You were, after all, an apparently willing mouthpiece.

Originally Posted by Tere Salazar

But I will also not sit back while you all attack Wes for defending what he used to know of Bobby and question in which direction moral compass points because of it. I used to know that same Bobby. Bobby and I spoke regularly for a number of years, and I considered him one of my dearest friends.

Is turnabout no longer fair play?

Originally Posted by Wilomn

now that he's a pariah you're piling on with all the rest who have no morals to speak of

Originally Posted by Tere Salazar

I am personally quite worried that something has happened to Bobby to cause whatever it is that's gone on. I can see financial issues happening to someone and them not holding up their end of a bargain. In fact, we all see it here all the time. I'm not saying that should absolve anyone of any debt, but sometimes, things happen.

He had opportunities to come clean and admit to whatever problems he was having. Instead, he chose to come out swinging, railing about how he doesn't owe anything to us grubby little trolls (well, after you were apparently done speaking for him). On the off chance that this wasn't a calculated scam, he'd chosen to completely shoot his feet off at the ankles, with his compounding bullheadedness with general idiocy. As such, he deserves everything he gets, and probably much more. The time for sympathy is long gone. Go ahead and lament straits of the poor scammer; I'd rather feel bad about the victims who simply made the mistake of buying into the Varnyard hype.

Originally Posted by Tere Salazar

But what I can't see is this abandoning/turning loose of tegus. No offense, Rich, but Bobby was one of the first to jump on Rich over the cornsnake release thing.

Feel free to go back and read through some of his posts. You'll see a veritable smorgasbord of denunciations that he leveled at others, which are now eerily applicable to himself. Personally, I think he was pretty dim-witted, but it seems that he had just enough low cunning to project an image of righteousness.

Originally Posted by Tere Salazar

Amazing how quickly some of you would rather jump on someone the second they fall down, than worry about what's going on with them...and maybe attempt to get some answers to that end.

Amazing how some would choose to give so much sympathy to the person that screwed everyone. Nevermind the many people whose money he stole. I'd have to imagine that the only answer the victims are interested in is how to get their money back, without having to spend more than what was already stolen.

Originally Posted by bfb345

Bobby produced some beautiful tegus and i will say some of the best out there but he lacked 100% on the business side of things he had a great passion for these reptiles and i feel it is wrong to be dissing him.

Sorry but someone who has a "passion" for any type of animal doesn't abandon them, essentially leaving them for dead. No, a "passionate" person would know when to rehome their beloved animals because them being alive with someone else is better than them being dead alone.
Also, please define "beautiful". A tegu is a tegu is a tegu. I could show someone in the hobby two side-by-side images of a black and white Argentine and they wouldn't be able to tell the difference. He also had no problem with sending out tegus with health problems (a few from recent years had various problems: video, video). I think people say he produced "beautiful" or "top quality" animals because they don't know any better. His website used to say he was the best in the business and, if you don't know any different, its very easy to get caught up in that.

Interesting to point out, this "mystery person" who abandoned the tegus down in Florida left them in late fall, I'd contacted Varnyard about 2 months ago, to see if he was even still reading emails to that address, and he'd told me I could place a deposit on a great 2013 tegu! So if he is this same person, which I'd bet money he is, he's probably still managed to take some poor fools' money and ran with it.

Honestly, last year my fiance was going to get us a tegu from Varnyard but things fell through and I'm glad they did.

as long as you were getting what you wanted but now that he's a pariah you're piling on with all the rest who have no morals to speak of and will do business with ANYONE so long as they get what they want.

Never bought a tegu (or anything else) from the person. I don't have to, I can get all the tegus I want for free. Wouldn't do business with him for anything, just listening to him over the phone was enough to convince me I didn't want to take any chance.

As for my morals, I don't think you know enough to make that call. Considering I'd never abandon an animal to starve to death, I think my morals are far more intact than the one you're defending. And do all the mental gymnastics you want, separating past from present, you most certainly are defending him when you make such statements as the above.

As for the piling on, I think it's safe to say I was probably the first to call Mr. Hill out on his behaviour years ago. If you worshipped Mr. Hill (or gave him money), he was your friend. If you didn't, he was an outright bully. I've been standing up to that crap the entire time I've known of him. As the facts have played out, that's not "piling on", that's called exposing the truth.

But I will also not sit back while you all attack Wes for defending what he used to know of Bobby and question in which direction moral compass points because of it.

Um, you may wish to revisit the order of the debate. Wes was the one to start casting aspersions towards others morality. I gather it's ok for Wes, but no one is allowed to reciprocate? How Bobby Hill-esque.

However, here's some food for thought. Right now, across the whole continent (not just the US), us exotic pet keepers are under attack from many angles: the PETA types, people scared of reptiles, people concerned over their natural environment - all seeking to pass laws banning us and acting quite coherently. We are having a hard time opposing these challenges to our hobby partly because we find it so difficult to present a unified position. Look at the inhouse problems with USARK for one. Every little unfortunate event (snake escape, sicko feeding house pets to her large snake/gator/etc.) detracts from our position. Along comes Mr.Hill. Bully. Scams people to a still undisclosed amount (if the counts on the various forums are accurate, it numbers in the tens of thousands). Abandons his animals to die a horrible end. And some people still defend him. If you think the PETA/animal rights/ecodefendors don't monitor sites such as this, then you're extremely naive. I once thought I made a relatively neutral statement on a relatively unknown local forum about a contentious issue taking place in a distant place - before the day was over the forum was being bombarded with requests from news agencies across Canada wanting my name/address for an interview. Some of you are handing the people who want to shut us down some tasty ammunition. Guy is a bully, scams a lot of people not just locally but on an international level, and turns out to be a cold-hearted animal abuser - and the exotic pet community thinks this should be ignored in light of what some people once perceived of him, and should be sympathized with (before anyone wants to jump on me for this characterization, lets admit the fact that whether I or anyone else here sees him this way, some activists most certainly will). If I were PETA, I'd feel like xmas had just arrived. I'm not saying everyone should start denigrating Mr.Hill, I'm saying you might want to reconsider how you openly praise him. You might be undermining your own interests.

Or to put it another way: John Wayne Gacy was once considered an outstanding member of the community and a real humanitarian too.

Originally Posted by Tmerianae

Never bought a tegu (or anything else) from the person. I don't have to, I can get all the tegus I want for free. Wouldn't do business with him for anything, just listening to him over the phone was enough to convince me I didn't want to take any chance.

As for my morals, I don't think you know enough to make that call. Considering I'd never abandon an animal to starve to death, I think my morals are far more intact than the one you're defending. And do all the mental gymnastics you want, separating past from present, you most certainly are defending him when you make such statements as the above.

As for the piling on, I think it's safe to say I was probably the first to call Mr. Hill out on his behaviour years ago. If you worshipped Mr. Hill (or gave him money), he was your friend. If you didn't, he was an outright bully. I've been standing up to that crap the entire time I've known of him. As the facts have played out, that's not "piling on", that's called exposing the truth.


Um, you may wish to revisit the order of the debate. Wes was the one to start casting aspersions towards others morality. I gather it's ok for Wes, but no one is allowed to reciprocate? How Bobby Hill-esque.

However, here's some food for thought. Right now, across the whole continent (not just the US), us exotic pet keepers are under attack from many angles: the PETA types, people scared of reptiles, people concerned over their natural environment - all seeking to pass laws banning us and acting quite coherently. We are having a hard time opposing these challenges to our hobby partly because we find it so difficult to present a unified position. Look at the inhouse problems with USARK for one. Every little unfortunate event (snake escape, sicko feeding house pets to her large snake/gator/etc.) detracts from our position. Along comes Mr.Hill. Bully. Scams people to a still undisclosed amount (if the counts on the various forums are accurate, it numbers in the tens of thousands). Abandons his animals to die a horrible end. And some people still defend him. If you think the PETA/animal rights/ecodefendors don't monitor sites such as this, then you're extremely naive. I once thought I made a relatively neutral statement on a relatively unknown local forum about a contentious issue taking place in a distant place - before the day was over the forum was being bombarded with requests from news agencies across Canada wanting my name/address for an interview. Some of you are handing the people who want to shut us down some tasty ammunition. Guy is a bully, scams a lot of people not just locally but on an international level, and turns out to be a cold-hearted animal abuser - and the exotic pet community thinks this should be ignored in light of what some people once perceived of him, and should be sympathized with (before anyone wants to jump on me for this characterization, lets admit the fact that whether I or anyone else here sees him this way, some activists most certainly will). If I were PETA, I'd feel like xmas had just arrived. I'm not saying everyone should start denigrating Mr.Hill, I'm saying you might want to reconsider how you openly praise him. You might be undermining your own interests.

Or to put it another way: John Wayne Gacy was once considered an outstanding member of the community and a real humanitarian too.

After reading this I can only assume 2 things. 1, you want us to think you're an idiot. 2, you really are.

You keep, continually, time after time, saying I said things I didn't say and meant things I didn't mean. There is no praise here for bobby. There is no defending here for bobby. Try to understand that.

BUT, the Bobby I knew, the guy who was my friend, who apparently exists no longer, I'll defend that guy if you say untrue things about him. That's the kind of guy I am.

You seem to be, you must be because you seem rather bright, intentionally twisting what I say. You also seem to be holding different standards for different posters. I don't really care, that's nothing new, but I thought you might not know it was so obvious.

One thing that really irritates me about people in general is how they rarely speak ill of the dead. Take that load of bull that used to be bruce stephensen, one of the biggest liars ever to draw breath, yet when crutchfield shot him, everyone was all about what a great guy he was. Well, he wasn't. Bobby may not be such a good guy now, frankly he's not, but he was and there is no denying that. I wonder what some would say were his death made public. I don't really care about that either, but I wonder because I've seen the double and triple and quadruple faces people here, everywhere, put on for the public.

Some of you people, who didn't know Bobby before whatever brought him down occurred, speak falsely. I just don't like that. So, either stop, or continue. I'll do the same.

Dan, I said I was worried. I didn't say I had any sympathy for anyone but the people who lost their money. Knock your word twisting crap off.

And yeah. I did have a problem with the way things were handled with the guy in Ireland. And that's probably why I stopped posting. Did you ever think about that?

And Colin, you won't find me praising whatever has become of the Bobby I knew. Apparently, the old Bobby, the good guy, my friend, is no longer.