Jim Flaherty of the Chameleon Company

You should probably read the whole thread before you post that. I said that after looking I found that there in fact was no data to say they cause lizard decline. However there are many documents stating that they are self-sustaining and continuing feral populations. Feral population still equals bad for the environment.

Not a particularly damning case thus far.

Originally Posted by Herpguy11

You should probably read the whole thread before you post that. I said that after looking I found that there in fact was no data to say they cause lizard decline. However there are many documents stating that they are self-sustaining and continuing feral populations. Feral population still equals bad for the environment.

1 Please link a scientific paper calling them feral. A feral animal is a domestic one gone wild. Chams are not domestic.
2 The proper term is exotic.
3 Exotics may or may not be invasive.
4 Until they are documented as invasive, I don't buy any negative environmental impact.
5 Every one I have observed, and what I suspect are the VAST majority of Cham populations in Florida, are in disturbed habitat anyway, which makes any actual research finding them invasive/harmful very unlikely,IMO.

More to worry about besides a damn lizard becoming part of the food chain in Florida. Put your energy into killing these wacko Islamic terrorists.

Originally Posted by Lloyd Heilbrunn

4 Until they are documented as invasive, I don't buy any negative environmental impact.

I'm sure we're all aware that Retics and Anacondas were deemed "officially" invasive. USARK is currently fighting, and winning, a large case arguing that point. Just because "they" say something doesn't make it true, it also doesn't mean it is untrue if "they" haven't said so.

Originally Posted by regardingmarley

I'm sure we're all aware that Retics and Anacondas were deemed "officially" invasive. USARK is currently fighting, and winning, a large case arguing that point. Just because "they" say something doesn't make it true, it also doesn't mean it is untrue if "they" haven't said so.

You are confusing "invasive" with "injurious". And my "they" was referring to the Chams, not the nonexistent studies.

But my overriding point, is that people are overstating, without any objective scientific basis, the negative environmental impact of Chameleons in Florida, to bootstrap their accidental/purposeful release into making the thread subject a Bad Guy.

People should make their argument without this misrepresentation.

Originally Posted by Lloyd Heilbrunn

You are confusing "invasive" with "injurious". And my "they" was referring to the Chams, not the nonexistent studies.

But my overriding point, is that people are overstating, without any objective scientific basis, the negative environmental impact of Chameleons in Florida, to bootstrap their accidental/purposeful release into making the thread subject a Bad Guy.

People should make their argument without this misrepresentation.

I'm sorry, but you're simply wrong. Regardless of the impact it is irresponsible to allow the escape of any animal being captively bred, not for reintroduction purposes, into any environment, especially non-native. It comes down to responsibility.

Originally Posted by regardingmarley

I'm sorry, but you're simply wrong. Regardless of the impact it is irresponsible to allow the escape of any animal being captively bred, not for reintroduction purposes, into any environment, especially non-native. It comes down to responsibility.

Do you find yourself being consumed by fits of inconsolable rage when you see a honeybee alight upon the flower of a clover?

*smashes crystal unicorn figure*

Originally Posted by nickolasanastasiou

Do you find yourself being consumed by fits of inconsolable rage when you see a honeybee alight upon the flower of a clover?

*smashes crystal unicorn figure*

Right, because your ability to spout something quasi-poetic makes you superior. Thanks for showing me the light. I was not rude, I was not aggressive. I simply stated a fact. Keeping and breeding reptiles requires a certain responsibility whose standard has not been met by Mr. Flaherty.

Originally Posted by regardingmarley

Right, because your ability to spout something quasi-poetic makes you superior. Thanks for showing me the light. I was not rude, I was not aggressive. I simply stated a fact. Keeping and breeding reptiles requires a certain responsibility whose standard has not been met by Mr. Flaherty.

No need to misdirect your Hymenopteran hatred at me.