Speaking of karma points

Originally Posted by The BoidSmith

How soon we forgot the "battle for the reputation points"...In my opinion the karma system should be removed completely. It was a nice attempt but it proved to be no different than the previous system. If you agree or disagree with someone type it for everyone to see. Both reputation points and karma did only one thing, show the hubris of some at their best. We could probably even go one step further, and delete the "number of posts". Doing so would level the field between the new members and those that have been here for eons. Each person will have to earn their reputation on a daily basis, and not rely on past earned laurels from both constructive and destructive behavior.

Just an opinion.

I agree with your opinion Dan. I think an opinion about what people say ought to rest on the content of the post, not on who they are or what they have done in the past.

I do have to say I look forward to reading the posts of certain people over others though, because those people are thoughtful and insightful.

While I can't rate the individual headaches a site owner gets from different parts of a system, I think the reputation point part must be way up there in terms of monitoring the application and listening to one side or another complain.

Of course, if *everything* people complained about was removed, there would be nothing left.

Originally Posted by Wilomn

And just who would be in charge of such bombs? Is it a position held for life or does it change? How is it assigned?

My thoughts were for it being a collective bomb, rather then simply one person with the nuclear attack codes.

For example, if someone is being particularly antagonistic, drop a bomb.

Rather then just a few haphazard karma points being presented, there is a collective effort by the members to all do it. Perhaps a thread where people would suggest posts deserving of the collective bombs.

The idea is that if 20, 50, or 100 people all agree that your post was bad and act upon it with a karma bomb, maybe the offending poster might get the message and think a little more before the next post.

Of course, there could also be positive karma bombs, but I think that they would probably just cause a feeding frenzy by the karma whores, and flood the forums with fluff. I don't know, maybe I'm just too cynical.

Anyway, that was my thought process.

While on the topic though, if we are going to have a karma system in place, why are there limits? I can understand not being able to give it to the same person over and over,(even though sometimes, they are deserving), but why is there a limit on karma when it is being passed around?

There were some screenshots posted lately that basically stated the person had exceeded their karma giving quota for the day. I don't understand that limitation at all.

Originally Posted by Mike Greathouse

I don't know, maybe I'm just too cynical.

It does seem like that lately for you, Mike. I think that you may be attributing characteristics to posts that they do not have. There are different forums and different levels of expertise here, and room for all kinds of posts.

Originally Posted by Mike Grethouse

The idea is that if 20, 50, or 100 people all agree

That might be difficult, large numbers of people rarely agree on anything around here.

I think there is merit in the idea of each person being judged on each post they write that Dan proposed:

Originally Posted by The_BoidSmith

Each person will have to earn their reputation on a daily basis

Originally Posted by Mike Greathouse

,

There were some screenshots posted lately that basically stated the person had exceeded their karma giving quota for the day. I don't understand that limitation at all.

Mike:
There used to be a coven here who spent a great deal of time making the rounds and giving positive Karma to their friends and negative karma to folks they did not like, regardless of post content.
I know I got my Karma zapped by one of them, one day, just for talking about time zones.
Perhaps the limitation here was to prevent that sort of abuse.

The idea is that if 20, 50, or 100 people all agree that your post was bad and act upon it with a karma bomb, maybe the offending poster might get the message and think a little more before the next post.

Of course, there could also be positive karma bombs, but I think that they would probably just cause a feeding frenzy by the karma whores, and flood the forums with fluff. I don't know, maybe I'm just too cynical.

You answered it yourself Mike. The problem would be that some people might be acting in consortium (through PMs) to drop either positive or negative karma bombs.

While on the topic though, if we are going to have a karma system in place, why are there limits? I can understand not being able to give it to the same person over and over,(even though sometimes, they are deserving), but why is there a limit on karma when it is being passed around?

There were some screenshots posted lately that basically stated the person had exceeded their karma giving quota for the day. I don't understand that limitation at all.

Limitations are in place because of the same reasons posted above; abuse of the system.

Regards.

Originally Posted by Mike Greathouse

Maybe we should come up with a system to deliver "Karma Bombs" to those that feel they need this certification.

We could pick a person who is trying very hard to gain the approval of the forum, or is simply pissing everyone else off and deliver them a "Karma Bomb" (either positive or negative) from multiple members of the site.

At the very least, a few Karma Bombs might help to alleviate some of the internal bickering that has been going on lately.

Actually this is not too far off from being a central theme in the new system I have decided to institute here. Of course, there are some differences and limitations. For one thing the karma system really doesn't have any teeth to it. You can post someone negative karma until you (and everyone else) is blue in the face for all eternity, and in many cases it will not have any effect whatsoever on the person you are trying to "bomb". But think about this, suppose there was a merging of the karma system AND the warning point system? If a member was at risk of getting fined and suspended if they sufficiently pissed off many of the people here with their postings, perhaps they would take notice, eh?

Originally Posted by lucille

While I can't rate the individual headaches a site owner gets from different parts of a system, I think the reputation point part must be way up there in terms of monitoring the application and listening to one side or another complain.

Actually it is much less of a headache than it used to be. Simply because I have decided to ignore such things. But honestly that probably isn't fair of me to do. Which is some of the impetus in the new system I am going to be doing here. I really shouldn't just throw everyone to the wolves without them being armed.

If I recall, and I may be wrong, but wasn't there someone, who feigned innocence often, who quite often sent pm's to others asking for positive karma and often suggesting, in no uncertain terms, just whom should recieve negative karma? Didn't she and her cohorts hit quite a few people in order to quiet them down? Didn't this group have members in the top ranks of positive karma holders that made many wonder just how they got there?

I think any system that involves groups, organized individuals massing together, is just going to make a more open US vs THEM mentality here. I personally think that if you can't stand on your own, maybe you should grow some backbone instead of joining a gang.

I want no part of any group, no affiliation with any "team" of bomb throwers at all.

The day I can't stand up and say to an individual what I personally feel without fear of being tossed, hmmmmm flashback here, so long as I stay within the guidlelines of this site, is the day I loose what little respect I've managed to maintain.

I think the karma system is a good thing over all, there are going to be a few down sides to eveything. IMO, the good out weighs the bad.

Originally Posted by WebSlave

fined and suspended

This Fauna stuff sounds like it could get REAL expensive for some people REAL quick. The Big Wheel is gonna go start a savings account RIGHT NOW!!!!

But think about this, suppose there was a merging of the karma system AND the warning point system? If a member was at risk of getting fined and suspended if they sufficiently pissed off many of the people here with their postings, perhaps they would take notice, eh?

What happened to the theory behind "giving them enough rope"...Maybe I'm reading it the wrong way (it wouldn't be the first or the last time) but it seems to me that a system such as that censors the individual. Give them freedom of expression! I still rather see them post their thoughts than refrain because they might be afraid of being fined and suspended. There will more than likely be a growing market for "sheep clothes"...