Arizona Exotics --- Payson, Az.

Originally Posted by xxmonitorlizardxx

Also, I was informed that there was water in the animal's bowl earlier.

I don't think I believe that. Who 'informed' you?
That poor dehydrated critter deserved to have water, not excuses.

Just come on out an admit it was your fault xxmonitorlizardxx. Drama llama! And that you're the real owner, lmao!

Originally Posted by xxmonitorlizardxx

That depends on the circumstances; in these circumstances it is acceptable. Arizona is a very hot place. Tom said he went to the store after he ate lunch. That would mean that he went around 12:30-3:00 in the afternoon. Those happen to be the hottest hours in a day. So of course the water in a water dish is going to evaporate.

Yes, I know how hot it gets in AZ. I know water evaporates in the heat. Are you saying that when it is 103 degrees outside it is 103 degrees in the store? I doubt it. most buildings have something called air conditioning.
Again it is never acceptable to allow an animal's water dish to run dry.

Originally Posted by xxmonitorlizardxx

Also, I was informed that there was water in the animal's bowl earlier.

informed? by who? the facebook page? this statement makes no sense coming from someone who is in NJ

Originally Posted by xxmonitorlizardxx

You and your local pet shop change your animals' water multiple times a day? Cool! That isn't required and most people don't do that, rather once a day or when they see the water level getting low. Water bowls are going to dry out... It happens... A lot... But all of you have to do, is fill it up when they saw that it was empty.

I actually care about my animals.
I check my snake's water when I wake up, topping off as required then wash the bowls in the afternoon after work. I check them last thing before I go to bed too.
At the pet shop we used to do things much the same way; probably because we actually cared about the well being of the animals under our care. we would check for water first thing in the morning, topping off as needed, wash the dishes during the day as we made the rounds and make sure there was water before leaving for the day as we shut the store down.
there is no reason a dish should ever run dry.
And yes, it is required that any reptile keeper should be checking their animal's water at least twice daily. I feel sorry for any animals not getting this sort of minimum care.
If you cannot provide this, do the animals a favor and get out of the hobby

Originally Posted by xxmonitorlizardxx

If they didn't want to give it water, why would their be a water bowl in there?

just because somebody puts a water dish in a cage does not mean they are going to put water in there.

Any Pet Shop that tries to brush this sort of stuff off and blame this on that should be immediately closed. Short staffed for "personal reasons" is just another BS excuse; where I worked the owner came in every day to be sure the shop was being taken care of; even while he was undergoing treatment for cancer.
Again; any excuse for neglect is just a load of BS and is not tolerated here

Originally Posted by xxmonitorlizardxx

Wow. I did not think that anyone could somehow misconstrue an analogy like that... Children obviously cannot own/run a pet shop.

Obviously not, so your analogy is invalid, because adults are charged with the responsibility of giving care to the critters they own, even if it is the bare elements of subsistence, such as food and water.
Your analogy seems to want to create a 'one abuse rule' where the owners are free to deprive critters until they are caught and told that they really should provide the basics of life. And if they ask, they can have another chance. Sort of like Michael Vick.
You seem to expect that everyone will say 'no big deal' and just gloss over this incident and go on.
Not.

Originally Posted by j_dunlavy

Yes, I know how hot it gets in AZ. I know water evaporates in the heat. Are you saying that when it is 103 degrees outside it is 103 degrees in the store? I doubt it. most buildings have something called air conditioning.
Again it is never acceptable to allow an animal's water dish to run dry.

No, but when you are replicating a desert environment , that is supposed to mimic the 103+ degree temperature outside, it is going to be hot inside of the enclosure. I'm fairly confident Collard Lizards do not appreciate air conditioning(although if the temperatures exceeded those found in the wild, maybe...).

Originally Posted by j_dunlavy

informed? by who? the facebook page? this statement makes no sense coming from someone who is in NJ

Yes, actually. There is good amount of contact info found on in.

Originally Posted by j_dunlavy

I actually care about my animals.
I check my snake's water when I wake up, topping off as required then wash the bowls in the afternoon after work. I check them last thing before I go to bed too.
At the pet shop we used to do things much the same way; probably because we actually cared about the well being of the animals under our care. we would check for water first thing in the morning, topping off as needed, wash the dishes during the day as we made the rounds and make sure there was water before leaving for the day as we shut the store down.
there is no reason a dish should ever run dry.
And yes, it is required that any reptile keeper should be checking their animal's water at least twice daily. I feel sorry for any animals not getting this sort of minimum care.
If you cannot provide this, do the animals a favor and get out of the hobby

It's great that you and your associates do that for your animals! But once again, you don't have to. In the wild, animals go days, weeks even, without water and they do fine. But that would also depend on what animal you are dealing with. A Salamander would not do well if it wasn't given a water bowl. A Collard Lizard on the other hand, would do fine. It is desert animal. They don't go to lakes and streams for water, they get most of their moisture from their prey items. I bet you would argue with Mother Nature for not making lakes abundant in deserts.

Originally Posted by j_dunlavy

just because somebody puts a water dish in a cage does not mean they are going to put water in there.

It isn't for aesthetics. For at least one point in time, they planned on having water in there.

Originally Posted by j_dunlavy

Any Pet Shop that tries to brush this sort of stuff off and blame this on that should be immediately closed. Short staffed for "personal reasons" is just another BS excuse; where I worked the owner came in every day to be sure the shop was being taken care of; even while he was undergoing treatment for cancer.
Again; any excuse for neglect is just a load of BS and is not tolerated here

The store took in a sick and dying animal from someone who didn't want it. Neglected to make sure the desert lizard had its, "24 hour accessible body of water that mimics its natural habitat", had water in it. And a store should be closed for that?
No, it shouldn't.

Originally Posted by Tom Pecanic

Just come on out an admit it was your fault xxmonitorlizardxx. Drama llama! And that you're the real owner, lmao!

Wow...

Originally Posted by Lucille

You seem to expect that everyone will say 'no big deal' and just gloss over this incident and go on.
Not.

Forget the analogy, it was futile.
I did not expect everyone to do that. Actually, I expected the polar opposite. This is Fauna, and I expected nothing less than an annoyingly dragged out argument.

Originally Posted by xxmonitorlizardxx

No, but when you are replicating a desert environment , that is supposed to mimic the 103+ degree temperature outside, it is going to be hot inside of the enclosure. I'm fairly confident Collard Lizards do not appreciate air conditioning(although if the temperatures exceeded those found in the wild, maybe...).

It's great that you and your associates do that for your animals! But once again, you don't have to. In the wild, animals go days, weeks even, without water and they do fine. But that would also depend on what animal you are dealing with. A Salamander would not do well if it wasn't given a water bowl. A Collard Lizard on the other hand, would do fine. It is desert animal. They don't go to lakes and streams for water, they get most of their moisture from their prey items. I bet you would argue with Mother Nature for not making lakes abundant in deserts.


It isn't for aesthetics. For at least one point in time, they planned on having water in there.


The store took in a sick and dying animal from someone who didn't want it. Neglected to make sure the desert lizard had its, "24 hour accessible body of water that mimics its natural habitat", had water in it. And a store should be closed for that?
No, it shouldn't.

I have been working with reptiles for over 20 years. I am well versed in what it takes to care for them in private homes and what it takes to provide a decent level of care for them in a well stocked pet store environment.

I guess I have to explain that the air conditioner is meant to keep the store from getting up to 103 degrees, not to keep the desert tanks cool.

We used to keep uromastyx, etc, and their water dishes never ran dry. It wasn't even hard to keep water in their dishes.
It is just good husbandry to keep a water source even if the animal does not need it all the time.
heck, I can't remember the last time I saw my leopard torts drink, they usually walk right past the water provided after a brief glance at the water; does this mean I will deny them the opportunity?, no, absolutely not, they always have a water source.

Now when you are dealing with a sick, emaciated animal, water becomes even more critical and anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool or just plain ignorant.
I have dealt with my fair share of rescues and they always did much better once they got a bath and a meal on board, with very few exceptions
If you are going to take in a neglected animal, you should not neglect it further.

planning on having water in the dish is not equal to actually providing water.
Neglect is why some stores should be cited and/or closed.
more often than not, a store that had some neglect issues at one time has neglect issues on a regular basis.
I have seen this time and time again; those stores have since been shut down by the authorities; unfortunately animals were dying in beween the citations that ultimately shut them down.

Originally Posted by xxmonitorlizardxx

This is Fauna, and I expected nothing less than an annoyingly dragged out argument.

Classic. Attack the site and the people when people see through your baloney

Originally Posted by xxmonitorlizardxx

Yes, actually. There is good amount of contact info found on in.

by the way, I saw nothing on their facebook page about the dish ever having water in it. In fact it mentions nothing about this issue (as far as I could tell).

They do have a yelp link that was helpful

Originally Posted by j_dunlavy

more often than not, a store that had some neglect issues at one time has neglect issues on a regular basis.

Case in point:

Hey guys just coming back to annoyingly drag out the argument! What is annoying to me is dragging out the lil guys pain and suffering! You can be annoyed all you want at us buddy but that water dish looked like it was not only dry but dirty not to mention the condition his enclosure was in also. It comes down to common sense if someone isn't willing to take a the time they were killing standing around the register to clean out the enclosure and provide fresh water then they don't belong around animals.... One of the very first things on any care sheet is to provide fresh clean water AT ALL TIMES

Originally Posted by Lucille

Classic. Attack the site and the people when people see through your baloney

An attack on the site? You wish!
That was my observation of the website.
Observations are not attacks. These are examples of what attacks look like: