primate haters

It's important to draw a distinction between the organizations, as the individual Humane Societies are often not an enemy to responsible pet ownership.

Thank you Seamus, I forgot to bring that up. Let me correct myself. Alot of humane societies are at odds with PETA.

Wow...

Just wow...

You know... this really makes me sad that we, as reptile keepers, can be so judgmental. I know a lot of people that think I'm crazy or stupid for keeping what THEY consider to be dangerous pets in my house. I know a lot of reptile keepers who think people who keep hots are crazy or stupid. I see a lot of people and politicians right now that think this way and want to stop all of us from owning anything but what THEY think is safe. That mindset right there might make our hobby illegal.

And then I find this thread, and see people bashing someone for wanting to keep a monkey. Not really even trying to convince her it's wrong, but just making personal judgments on her sanity, her knowledge, or her motives? Is this what it's all about?

I can understand if people don't think monkeys make a good pet. I can understand if people think my reptiles don't make good pets. What I can't understand is where anyone feels the need to completely bash a person for feeling other than that. It's attitudes like that, that will probably get (what is it? HR 669? 699?) passed.

If her lemur gets out and attacks people, call her stupid. If my neighbors pit bull gets out and attacks someone, you better believe I'm going to call him stupid. But until then, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and let him do as he pleases.

You've missed the point. The point in this case isn't any perceived danger, it's the ability and willingness to provide the level of care the animal needs. While hots can be dangerous, most keepers I've met provide exemplary care.

"crazylady", however, is NOT providing the necessary level of care, and is neglecting a crucial aspect of this animal's well-being. I'd say exactly the same things to someone with a corn snake that doesn't have a heat source, or a dog with no vaccinations.

No matter what animal you have, no matter how rare or common, you have a responsibility to meet *ALL* of that animal's needs, and failure to do so is neglect, period.

I'm sorry, but putting ANY animal into captivity is neglecting at LEAST one of it's needs. That being freedom. We justify putting snakes in small tubs saying "well, if you put them in a big enclosure, they just hang out in one little hide anyway." That's bull, and we know it, but to save space and make them at least feel secure and eat, we keep them in small dark tubs throughout most of their lives.

I don't KNOW that my snakes are happy. I try to convince myself they are because they eat, and don't bite me. But non of us actually KNOW. I've seen primates that SEEM happy and content in captivity, but we don't KNOW.

Simply on that fact, I'm not going to judge her or her "level of care" unless I see that monkey covered in feces or with infected wounds or emaciated. I also won't judge any herp keepers level of care unless I see the same.

I'm sorry, but putting ANY animal into captivity is neglecting at LEAST one of it's needs. That being freedom. We justify putting snakes in small tubs saying "well, if you put them in a big enclosure, they just hang out in one little hide anyway." That's bull, and we know it, but to save space and make them at least feel secure and eat, we keep them in small dark tubs throughout most of their lives.

Firstly, the urge to "run free" is not present in many animals - you're just anthropomorphizing. Tracking studies of wild reptiles routinely show that they have small home ranges and, particularly in the case of snakes, only move when they have to in order to bask, feed, get water, etc. Even Komodos pretty much just move between ambush spots and resources like burrows and water holes.

Second, I've always been critical of tubs or any other non-enriched habitat. Every one of my snakes has a cage with a perimeter of at least twice the snake's length, with numerous branches, hides, etc. Including the big boa. Caring for snakes means giving them a suitable pseudo-natural habitat, and if that means you can't keep as many, so be it.

I don't KNOW that my snakes are happy. I try to convince myself they are because they eat, and don't bite me. But non of us actually KNOW. I've seen primates that SEEM happy and content in captivity, but we don't KNOW.

Corticosteroid levels.

Simply on that fact, I'm not going to judge her or her "level of care" unless I see that monkey covered in feces or with infected wounds or emaciated. I also won't judge any herp keepers level of care unless I see the same.

Then your standards are very, very low.

And then I find this thread, and see people bashing someone for wanting to keep a monkey. Not really even trying to convince her it's wrong, but just making personal judgments on her sanity, her knowledge, or her motives? Is this what it's all about?

I can understand if people don't think monkeys make a good pet. I can understand if people think my reptiles don't make good pets. What I can't understand is where anyone feels the need to completely bash a person for feeling other than that. It's attitudes like that, that will probably get (what is it? HR 669? 699?) passed.

I'm sorry, but putting ANY animal into captivity is neglecting at LEAST one of it's needs. That being freedom. We justify putting snakes in small tubs saying "well, if you put them in a big enclosure, they just hang out in one little hide anyway." That's bull, and we know it, but to save space and make them at least feel secure and eat, we keep them in small dark tubs throughout most of their lives.

I don't KNOW that my snakes are happy. I try to convince myself they are because they eat, and don't bite me. But non of us actually KNOW. I've seen primates that SEEM happy and content in captivity, but we don't KNOW.

Firstly, the urge to "run free" is not present in many animals - you're just anthropomorphizing.

Ok.. maybe not in most reptiles, but if you look at many mammals, yes it is.

Corticosteroid levels.

Ok, just because an animal's corticosteroid levels show that it isn't stressed, doesn't neccesarily mean it's happy. Depression doesn't always mean stress.

first i would like to thank those of you who are at least tying to give me the benifit of a doubt. i dint catch all of your screen names and im sorry about that. for that one that thinks i am just plain out stupid for my choice in pets, i feel sorry for you. if you can be just an ass to someone who you have never met i would hate to see how you are to people that you do know. i gladly invite you to my home to see just how my lemur is treated, fed and the cheap ass $3000 outside cage he has.you are welcome to come visit anythime! my door is open to any of you. and since i dont work i am always here, come on by! i spend at least 10 hours a day playing with him and letting him act like a monkey. witch by the way if you look it up he is not a monkey he is a primate yes but lemurs were around thousands of years before monkeys. before you decide that i am not doing what i need to do for him why dont you look up ringtail lemurs yourself. yes they are very social, i have learned what he wants by the sounds he makes and the way he acts. He is going on monday to have a TB test, rabies shot and tetnis shot. he will be fixed at 15 months old and have his canine teeth filed. i dont treat him like a human baby because he is not one. i have three children and if i wanted a baby i would have one. i have tried very hard to be polite and respectful to all of you. i refuse to act like a bitch to someone i dont personally know. anyone who decides to keep an exotic animal will always have to hear "they dont make good pets" i dont mind someone telling me that, it is expected although it shouldnt be. what i do mind is someone telling me i am stupid or crazy! and its just past wrong telling them that they are incomptant and shouldnt have anything other than a pet rock! i havent posted anything about my other babies because i do not want to hear more crap about them. i know this will just add more fuel to the fire but ill tell you anyway. i was contacted by a lady with a 6 month old male lemur that was moving and couldnt take him with her. my husband will be picking him up today at 4. so it looks like i will have another "baby" sooner than expected. i am hoping that he will make friends with booboo. he will be going to the vet on monday as well. i am just lucky to have a wonderful exotic vet. i would like to contribute to this site because i know things can get expensive but if i am only going to get put down i will just have to delete myself because it is not worth it to me.
why pay to be talked about like you are just shit on the street? i am sure their are many of you on here that are just wonderful people and love your pets as much as i love mine, it is you that i would like to get to know and hear more about what you have.
teresa

Ok.. maybe not in most reptiles, but if you look at many mammals, yes it is.

You're generalizing from less than 0.0001% of animal species, there, and less than 10% of vertebrates.

I'd also note, I don't any non-domesticated mammals, and my dog's breed (greyhounds) have become utterly dependent upon humans - lost individuals cannot forage and eventually starve, usually within weeks due to their high metabolism.

Ok, just because an animal's corticosteroid levels show that it isn't stressed, doesn't neccesarily mean it's happy. Depression doesn't always mean stress.

Yes, actually, depression *does* result in higher corticosteroid levels.

Why are you trying to bring drama to this board? You knew the poop that you would stir and you are acting OMG surprised and like some helpless victim when you get the result you knew you would get. The vet willing to file the poor animals teeth should lose their license. They obviously don't care about the animals well being. Congrats on showing your selfishness. Do you feel better now that we all think you are a moron?

I'm actually kind of amazed by some of the responses in this thread.

First off, nobody here has the right to comment on a psychologically damaging situation to any captive exotic animal. Along with this, claiming that 'primates shouldn't be pets', that is amazing.

On a forum which regularly deals with much, much more dangerous animals (alligators? venomous snakes?) I'm amazed that anyone can call a judgment on someone for wanting to keep any animal.

I can understand if she was keeping an ape. Lemurs are not apes. Although I think lemurs can be nasty, nasty creatures (Esp. females), they can't lift dumpsters and rip your arms off just because they're in a 'bad mood'.

I'm not going to tell someone what animals they are and are not allowed to have. I'm not going to pass judgment.

HOWEVER. No primate should have to have their teeth pulled to suit it for home life. That's not right. You, as the owner, should be committed to doing what is best for the animal. NOT what makes you sleep better at night. Lemurs bite. All animals bite. All primates bite. That is a fact of owning these animals. Having an entire colony of them is not going to help them become better suited as pets. I'd say it might make them less interested in interacting with you.

You took on the responsibility to own this animal. To take away something like their teeth- I never understood that. I probably never will. If you are honestly THAT afraid of it scalping you, the answer is right there. Give the animal to someone that can better take care of it. Not a zoo, not a psuedo-sanctuary- someone who can give it a loving home, and give it the proper care it needs.

I'm not going to patronise this 'crazylady', I think she needs some help with understanding these animals and how to more properly care for them. Insulting her, calling it 'cruel' to own a lemur, and then turn around and give a snake barely any room to move around- that's so hypocritical it's laughable.

True, they're totally different. But at the end of the day, none of the animals people here keep were really 'meant' to be pets. But that doesn't make it wrong.