UndergroundReptiles, Deerfield.

I am 14, my father used to buy me a reptile a month from that place, I will say nothing further about what happened to those reptiles, but i still do own some of them, and I also own a chinese chipmunk from them, that is doing excellent, I apologized, I hope everyone can understand that i am not some delinquent. I wish that this could have just ended with the email, but It didnt, thats what happened happened, I apologized to Ryan, everything is cleared up, all I had left to do was defend myself against these alleged "hackings".

No-I am not the parent of either child. I met them once at Daytona. I have not helped them construct any emails. I will, however, defend anyone I think needs defending. If I see animals kept in sub-par conditions, I will go after people myself. ((DISCLAIMER-I HAVE NEVER BEEN TO UNDERGROUND REPTILES, I HAVE NOT DONE BUSINESS WITH THEM, AND FOR ALL I KNOW I COULD WALK INTO THE PLACE AND FIND IT THE PERFECT PALACE.)) I am a member of a forum with these two, and they are intelligent and well spoken. Education will do that for you. I can say that many of the posts in this thread are not well written by some posters far older then the kids. These kids care immensely for animals, as do I. This is out of control. Apologies have been made. All of you reading this are well aware of the crappy attitudes and "can do no wrong" people, and email and forum communication makes it easy to start wars. Customer Service, professionalism, and respect are as or more important to me than anything else. The BOI is the place to let people know what you find, who you have done good and bad business with, and it helps us all to make better decisions. Most of us only know one side. The emails were posted on a public forum. In a non internet world none of us would even be involved. My reputation is clean-so everyone go unwad your panties.

Originally Posted by Julirs

No-I am not the parent of either child. I met them once at Daytona. I have not helped them construct any emails. I will, however, defend anyone I think needs defending. If I see animals kept in sub-par conditions, I will go after people myself. ((DISCLAIMER-I HAVE NEVER BEEN TO UNDERGROUND REPTILES, I HAVE NOT DONE BUSINESS WITH THEM, AND FOR ALL I KNOW I COULD WALK INTO THE PLACE AND FIND IT THE PERFECT PALACE.)) I am a member of a forum with these two, and they are intelligent and well spoken. Education will do that for you. I can say that many of the posts in this thread are not well written by some posters far older then the kids. These kids care immensely for animals, as do I. This is out of control. Apologies have been made. All of you reading this are well aware of the crappy attitudes and "can do no wrong" people, and email and forum communication makes it easy to start wars. Customer Service, professionalism, and respect are as or more important to me than anything else. The BOI is the place to let people know what you find, who you have done good and bad business with, and it helps us all to make better decisions. Most of us only know one side. The emails were posted on a public forum. In a non internet world none of us would even be involved. My reputation is clean-so everyone go unwad your panties.

Well said, Juli.

Originally Posted by aleria

Maturity level and intelligence are very far from being accurate indicators of age. I would think the fact that what seems to be a majority of adults lack even the intelligence level to spell properly or construct a legible sentence would be proof of that.

Absolutely true.

that now a little boy has a cause ! Of course never even purchased the chameleon from Underground to justify ANY accusation other then complain..

Had there been no emails on the part of Underground, can you imagine how much worse the situation would have been by these two infants who took it upon themselves whether independently or by collusion to cause a problem for a business that did nothing in an improper sale to either child.


Now this kid does NOT want to get involved anymore and wants to put an end to this... He had no business getting involved in the first place. I am sure his parents are wise enough to insure that this does not happen again as it can get very costly. Whatever this child does while he is underage will reflect not only on himself but his parents as well... That includes any financial restitution that may arise out Undgergrounds loss of business....

With regard to the other child, hope Underground pursues it as the 2nd kid seems to feel he is untouchable ,immune from the consequences that I hope he receives.... Enough said on the subject...

Jerry funny how you seem to think you know everything that happened when in fact you dont. I personnally spoke to Rian and he said to me he did not even know what had happened on YOUTUBE he was only going on what someone at the store had told him. There was no Hacking or slandering on Daniels part. Daniel has purchased many chameleons from many pet stores including underground. He has also received many care sheets filled with misinformation on how to care for chameleons. He has done research beyond his years on proper care of them and knows more about how to care for them more then most pet stores who dont know how they should truly be cared for. I know I have seen them die after being cared for just like the care sheets say.
He saw a wrong tried to make it right. He settled his issue with them yet you seem to continue to want to continue this bashing and posting of inorrect information.
Hacking, thats a serious charge do you not think Youtube would have something to say about that. I am proud that Danny stood up for what he believed. Daniel is my son and like a man he spoke to Rian and took responsibility for his actions trust me you only know part of the story, they are not blameless on how the emails were handeled. I have read them all.
Financial restitution for what emails or a posting on youtube get your facts straight not from what you think you know or what somebody told you. Thats all Daniel did nothing more.

Also not that it is any of your buisness but we used to spend alot of money weekly at underground and would be there a couple times a week.

I dont bash anyone, nor do provide information about things I do not know about: The following statement reflects the choices your son and this other person attempted to do:

"They proceeded to continue their rants and questioned are expertise. They began sending us insulting and vulgar comments, as well as posting comments on youtube as well. We finally decided to tolerate no more after repeated emails, phone calls, hacking and spamming our youtube accounts and now this fauna thread"

Just to clarify my concern in this matter... Your son as precocious as you may think he is went beyond a simple concern for clarifyiny an animal concern. What your son did was use the internet to malign a business... That should be a concern for everyone.

If in fact and you are right I cannot say for sure but accept the information provided that the passwords on YOUTUBE were in fact hacked then the intent is a little bit more serious then the care for a chameleon.....



I dont believe your son or the other child involved realized the ramifications when something like occurs and it gets out of hand... Its very comforting to know that your son is enough of an advocate to know what he is maintaining when he makes a purchase of a reptile.... But this has nothing to do with reptiles.

What it has to do with is purposely intimidating a legal busikness through a variety of mediums such as this forum as well as others : with no remorse thinking they are immune form this behaviour and that nothing will come out of it because they are underage....

There is a right way to right what your son may perceive as a wrong. But I think your sons over enthusiasm got the better of him, and with the aid of this other child it mushroomed into a confrontation that required your inception into this.... Your son may be responsible for his own actions but so are you !

Thats what happens when a child decides to take matters in their own hands without realizing that words can come back to haunt them on any open forum such as these areas of interest where thousands of people see the benefits as well as causing a loss of business based on harassment

When a thread is made anywhere, age requirement is not necessary to voice an opinion or a harmful post....... There may very well have been an age requirement even for this site ! Not to mention TOS for Youtube as well as other sites your son and this other person posted....


There is no reason why Underground should have to come here and post the following: So we are being forced to contact forums and other websites as well as take legal actions for these kids behavior. I truly believe that these kids should be taught a lesson and have any their accounts with these reptile forums and youtube suspended and should definitely make some apologies. Negative comments are one thing harassment and hacking is another

Your son and this other person should consider themselves lucky that Rian is more of a forgiving person.

I hope that in the future, discretion is used by your son when entering this type of an arena where post of this nature can cause enough difficulties to escalate into something that neither party want to deal with..

We certainly have seen enough of that with all the children who loose control of there senses!...

Finally, Mr 0319, I never asked you how much you spend for anything, and you are right its none of my buisness. Then why bring it up.

Concern yourself in making sure your own pockets are well guarded for your sons adventures may cause you to dig deep.

I want it to be known that this is the last post that will be made on behalf of Underground Reptiles. My name is Ryan B. I am the one responsible for all internet ads, emails, forum accounts, and the YouTube account. I speak on behalf of the store and owner when I say that we are content with the apologies recieved from both boys and their fathers. I was a first hand witness to the emails, as well as spoke with the boys, and one of the fathers, and I hope that if you get to know me you will realize I am no liar nor have any reason to make up stories and accusations. Keep in mind this is a business for me and I am not paid to squabble with little children or their parents. I hope all of us after reading this email will drop this issue, since it really has nothing to do with a bad business transaction or anything to do with proven improper treatment of animals. Anyone who disagrees can call me personally(954)428-8005. We should really put our attention back on the love of this industry and animal care. My hope is that this posting would be taken down but if not that is fine as well. Since speaking to the parents, who only found out about this incident a day ago, or so they say, all harrassing emails have stopped, crank phone calls have ceased, no further youtube posts have been made, nor any hacking with posts containing private email excerpts from the boys and our email conversations have been made(which totaled over 180 posts and happened even after we changed our password twice). I also offer this final extension of kindness to the boys and their parents. Please do not feel that you are not welcomed here any longer. In fact since you young men feel such an inclination to the animals we love why don't you volunteer some of your time here to help care for the animals we love so dearly. I know you probably know a lot already but I'm sure there are some things we can still teach you. Thank you everyone for your support and kind words.

Ryan B.

I am not an employee of Undegrounds, but a customer as your son was. Underground is a legal business that has a reputation to uphold. It has been in Deerfield for many years servicing the herp community and building an honorable reputation for dealing with quality merchandise , keeping a clean operation that can easily set an example to other similar operatons and employees that care...

It serves no advantage for Underground to pursue anything with a grievance of a person 13 or 14 years of age.. Underground would never win in that scenario.

I can understand there reluctance in even pursuing this thread... they said what they had t say and thats the end of it.. I am not obligated in keeping still on these matters.... Personally, your son has a "hell of a nerve". Its just your sons good fortune that the position of Underground is to reduce this to "lets move on"

Next time your son may not be so fortunate, and there are others including myself who will not be as tolerant in this kind of behaviour . I have no way of knowing if this is isolated or not, but I just wanted YOU to know, that your son really overstepped his boundries... hurting a well established business in an open forum is one thing....

If your son felt that he was wronged with a purchase, there are avenues he can take or you can take on his behalf in small claims court if satisfaction is not resolved at the store level.... In this case there was no purchase just an onslaught of vindictiveness over the internet that was not done by accident....