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Old 09-16-2015, 09:28 PM   #71
davkaufman
I am simply going to stick to the facts:
1. Mr. Foster’s claim is that he was sold a leopard pied male from me a few years ago that did not produce any leopards for him, and therefore he feels that he has been financially disadvantaged because of this.
2. He made me aware of this after its first year breeding, but did not provide any photo documentation of the offspring, nor any further information. I had no reason at the time to not take him on his word and I asked what he would like to do. He said he would like to breed it the following year and I asked him to keep me posted.
3. Although I did not produce the snake and was only the middleman in the sale, I still took responsibility for it when apparently it did not produce what Mr. Foster expected it to. Keep in mind the snake did look like it was a leopard pied to both us, and the breeder. Further, over the years that this has been going on, I have not once given any reason for Mr. Foster to doubt that I would take full responsibility for this, nor create any doubt that I would not make it right. In fact, I have repeatedly done the opposite. (see below screen shots) Like every one of my customers, I bend over backwards to make sure that every reptile that passes through my hands, whether I bred them or not, is healthy and that people who buy from me are 100% satisfied as repeatedly stated in my good guy posts.
4. Because tone and intent is often misconstrued in text messaging and emails, I invited Mr. Foster to call me so we could discuss this like gentlemen and come to a mutual agreement to rectify this situation, something a lot of breeders might not be willing to do so many years after the fact, but again, I offered this in good will to show that just because I was the middleman in this arrangement that I was still willing to stand up and rectify this. He told me he would call, and did not, yet created this post instead.
5. He suggested I send him a female killer clown to make up for any monetary losses he may have incurred (see screen shots) Essentially, he wanted to be fully reimbursed for a snake he bred multiple times over a couple years, and wanted me to bend and send him a $2K snake to make up for his loss. This would result in him getting a female killer clown, being fully reimbursed for a snake he bred, produced offspring, and sold the babies and made income from those sales. I would get an unguaranteed amount of a few hundred dollars on top of the original sale price of the snake in question. Sure, that would equal the amount of the snake in question, but doesn’t take into consideration the monetary gain from the offspring over multiple seasons which he, of course, had already banked. Would anyone in my position agree to this arrangement? I, of course, turned down his proposal. He then threatened to take this here and this is where my willingness to come to an agreement began to wane, although I still communicated a desire to make this right. He chose instead to drag my name through the mud, and when he told me that he posted this, without giving me a chance to offer my solution over the phone, the resulting anger at this was revealed in my texts to him as a visceral reaction to it, and perhaps my tone did come across as uncouth. I apologize for that. I have read so many posts on this forum of people using it to slander people’s good name in an attempt to gain an upper hand in a situation that could have been so easily rectified with a simple conversation. Now my good name and reputation may be blemished and frankly it is alarming and very off-putting that so many have rushed to condemn and judge me based solely on Mr. Foster’s report of this situation.
6. Here is what I’m willing to do at this point: This is a question of monetary loss based on a snake reported to have been sold carrying a gene that apparently didn’t prove out. As such, certainly Mr. Foster has kept meticulous records to prove his claim, of which he has yet to volunteer this information or photos to me (to be fair, I didn’t previously ask for it). I would like to see posted here photo documentation of all breedings involving the male in question, offspring produced and dated feed cards of those offspring from all seasons he was used as a breeder so that we can see that this snake sired these offspring. I also want to see dated receipts of the sale of all offspring sired by this male to assess what losses actually have incurred (you may provide this information to me privately to protect your customer’s information). Once the establishment of actual loss has been determined, I am willing to make up for the difference in value. Please note that I would not be asking for this, and would have reached an amicable solution to this had you simply called me as again, you stated you would, and did not. I am rightfully upset by your course of action here. So now that this thread has been posted here, please provide this full information, make it fully transparent, and this will be resolved.

My texts are in blue:
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Old 09-16-2015, 09:40 PM   #72
Black Adder
3. Although I did not produce the snake and was only the middleman in the sale, I still took responsibility for it when apparently it did not produce what Mr. Foster expected it to. Keep in mind the snake did look like it was a leopard pied to both us, and the breeder.

If you look back at your old ad for this( revealed by Dennis in post #57) there seemed to be NO doubt in the wording you used to describe it, that it was indeed a leopard pied?
So when did this "agreement" between all of you occur that it did not "look" like a leopard pied?
 
Old 09-16-2015, 09:41 PM   #73
ORTALLERICO
You want to see two years worth of breeding information? Well if your going to ask for that you might as well as for graphs of potential loss on his part. Big price difference in a leopard pied and just a normal pied. also if Mr. Foster wanted to keep some hold backs they would be almost up to age at this point, that is if they were females. There is a lot of scenarios we could point out. At the end of the day you sold a snake that didn't have the genetics that you guaranteed in your ad. There was money loss on Randy part also being that he could have sold leopard pieds all day long for about 1200 to 1400 range the first season and so fourth. Are you willing to make up those losses also?
 
Old 09-16-2015, 09:42 PM   #74
Black Adder
And again it really is irrelevant at this stage whether you were truly just amiddle man or the original breeder/seller.
The sale was between yourself and Randy period!
This BOI really has zero interest in the original breeder at this stage
 
Old 09-16-2015, 09:51 PM   #75
Randy F
First, Dav I have to refresh your memory on a year ago......you had no idea what to do. We came up with the idea of breeding it for another year because you had no idea what to do. At that point I had no reason to doubt it either. Why would I say it didn't prove but I want to breed it more?

As for the pictures of the offspring, no problem. This year I bred it to a super pastel het pied and produced a beautiful pastel pied and 3 pastel het pieds that I actually gave away to a member here Otto because he wanted some. Otto please post some pictures of those snakes on here as I will the visual.

as far as wanting the killer clown and to come up on you......well I clearly stated that I did not want anything for lost clutches. I also stated I would take the cost of this snake off of that so you would still get money, I would prefer a refund. As I said before in this that your $1850 snake that's more than another with an extras gene is now $2000?

For calling you.....read the messages, I told you I would call and you never responded. Then I asked what you had come up with, which you still did not respond. At this point why would I call you where there is no record of our conversation? I don't think anyone on here would want a conversation over the phone with you, especially since you said you told me you were the broker when that's not what you told me. I never said anything deroggotive to you, and even defended you in this thread that it was an honest mistake. Maybe if you communicated better/faster then it would not be here. I gave you many chances. If I told you that I would do this, then why did you not try and reach out to me in over 5 days after telling me you had your 20 year reputation?
 
Old 09-16-2015, 09:57 PM   #76
Randy F
pastel pied
Attached Images
  
 
Old 09-16-2015, 10:07 PM   #77
ORTALLERICO
Pastels het pied
Attached Images
 
 
Old 09-16-2015, 10:09 PM   #78
Bobby Douglass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Adder View Post
3. Although I did not produce the snake and was only the middleman in the sale, I still took responsibility for it when apparently it did not produce what Mr. Foster expected it to. Keep in mind the snake did look like it was a leopard pied to both us, and the breeder.

If you look back at your old ad for this( revealed by Dennis in post #57) there seemed to be NO doubt in the wording you used to describe it, that it was indeed a leopard pied?
So when did this "agreement" between all of you occur that it did not "look" like a leopard pied?
.....
 
Old 09-16-2015, 10:19 PM   #79
Randy F
there are a lot of discrepancies between the ad and what has transpired. I still believe that Dav thought that's what it was and don't think it was his intent. Some of the stuff seems kinda weird now, but it was his lack of communication at coming to an fix that led this here. 2 weeks and only communication is when I get ahold of him and/or tell him I am going to do this.
 
Old 09-16-2015, 10:30 PM   #80
Milo Garcia
Randy why don't you reveal all he's asking for, and in return Dav you should reveal who you were brokering that snake for?

Milo Garcia
 

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