Kingsnake problem, anyone else had this problem with classified account?

Originally posted by TJEvans
Here's one thing I've noticed from this thead regarding Savanah

Bob Clark comes here saying that Savanah may be invloved with this Jeff Miller character. I don't know the exact history in his case although I've read his homepage about it.

Regardless. Jeff Miller did something bad to BOB CLARK. What grounds does that give to JEFF BARRINGER to revoke Savanah's account.

This is just plain playing favorites. So Jeff has the right to revoke somebody of their classified account after they paid for it, because you might be affiliated with a known criminal, that did somethin to ANOTHER vendor on your site? This just doesn't make sense.

I'm sorry. This just makes me a little sick, that Bob can use whatever power he has (well earned mind you) to this extent.

If it's proven that Savanah is realy a "front" for whatever scheme it is that Jeff Miller is dreaming up, then That is a banishable offense, but until then, speculation, and the opinion of a reptile powerhouse shouldn't be the means for such action.

Am I the only one seeing this, or am I just the only one the will say it?

Jeff has shown some true character if this is the only reason she was revoked her account........

You are NOT the only one that sees this. It's bloody obvious. But what is even more obvious is the motive. The connection to Miller is only to slander her name. The real motive behind all this is because she has something that Bob doesn't (the dwarf burms) and this is just about making sure she can't market them. It's downright contemptable. Now,... am I the only one seeing this?

[i]What grounds does that give to JEFF BARRINGER to revoke Savanah's account. [/b]

KS is a Jeff's private business. He does not need a reason to deny an account to anyone. He can deny service for any reason that he sees fit. He doesn't need grounds.

I have no idea if her account was terminated. Her post implies that it was. Maybe she should clear this up for us.

I know that Jeff Miller ships snakes via Delta under the name of Morph Specialties. Savannah told me that she doesn't even know who Miller is. At one time she posted regularly on my own forum. Miller's picture and an article have been featured on the opening page. Its obvious to me that she lied.

How does a little girl in Buckeye, AZ meet the world's most notorious animal smuggler anyway? Miller, Beau Lewis and Anson Wong were caught and convicted of crimes in the USFWS sting, Operation Chameleon. Anson's wife is the supplier to Savannah Sernas.

I'm sure as soon as Savannah gets her facts together she'll have something to say and I look forward to hearing from her on this forum.

I sent Savannah two polite emails about this. She's told me that she doesn't know Miller. A few days later I was served with a court order to stop contacting her.

If Savannah's want's to be a legitimate member of this community she could easily have cleared this up last week. Instead she sent me a restraining order!

The connection to Miller is only to slander her name. The real motive behind all this is because she has something that Bob doesn't (the dwarf burms) and this is just about making sure she can't market them

Isnt this above statement also pure speculation ? or do you know something we dont know ?

"You are NOT the only one that sees this. It's bloody obvious. But what is even more obvious is the motive. The connection to Miller is only to slander her name. The real motive behind all this is because she has something that Bob doesn't (the dwarf burms) and this is just about making sure she can't market them. It's downright contemptable. Now,... am I the only one seeing this?"

So, Josh . . .

I guess that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing only applies to Savannah???

Let's just wait to see what Savannah says about her troubles with KS (you know, the purpose for this thread???), and THEN try to determine who owes whom an appology.

For everything else, I would suggest that another thread be established. That way, the two issues are not confused more than they already are.

How does a little girl in Buckeye, AZ meet the world's most notorious animal smuggler anyway? Miller, Beau Lewis and Anson Wong were caught and convicted of crimes in the USFWS sting, Operation Chameleon

ok i understand this part of your statement

Anson's wife is the supplier to Savannah Sernas.

ok now with this i know you had stated that thisWong fella owes you reimbursements for his part in the crime against you . But regardless of who her supplier is do you have any proof that anything she is importing and there fore supplying the thread starter "savahana" is illeagal#1 and if she is importing animals for her would this not mean that you wouldbe entilted to $ made from her supplying this person with animals? and if what she is importing / supplying to savahana is leagal how does that make savahana abad person?

I can understand with what you have done for the herp community Bob how you would want to "protect" your interests in it. But if you have no true proof that she has done nothing wrong IE: recieving illeagal animals etc other then knowing someone who is a theif then i would say i to would have probably sent you papers my self under the intent that you could be possibly maliciously trying to stop her buisness. now i will fully state here & now i have no more clues then what have been laid out here so there for this is why i am asking you those questions , if i missed something in this thread please excuse me for doing so ...
thanks for any input you have there Mr Clark.

I think the topic of "WHY" someone gets banned from ks was kind of hinted at earlier in this thread, and maybe it is actually where the focus of this thread will eventually be centered.

Sure, as mostly everyone seems to feel, JeffB can ban anyone he wants to from HIS site, but in his acting as an influential business entity, and in many cases being an integral part to many other people's businesses, it is a bit discomforting to see evidence that such bannings are not entirely based on any violations that have anything at all to do with ks's internal TOS.

As a business, that certainly would not give me a warm fuzzy feeling being in that position. IMHO.

Originally posted by Bob Clark
I have no idea if her account was terminated. Her post implies that it was. Maybe she should clear this up for us.

I know that Jeff Miller ships snakes via Delta under the name of Morph Specialties. Savannah told me that she doesn't even know who Miller is. At one time she posted regularly on my own forum. Miller's picture and an article have been featured on the opening page. Its obvious to me that she lied.

How long have you known that Savannah has known Miller? How many months? Why didn't you immediately expose this fact right away? Didn't you attempt to intimidate her into giving you the dwarf burms first and threaten to use her association with Miller to ruin her if she didn't "play ball"?


I sent Savannah two polite emails about this. She's told me that she doesn't know Miller. A few days later I was served with a court order to stop contacting her.

If Savannah's want's to be a legitimate member of this community she could easily have cleared this up last week. Instead she sent me a restraining order!

Nobody takes the time to file a restraining order because someone sends "two polite emails". This really makes me wonder. Maybe she should post the email contents and we can see how polite they are.

Originally posted by Bob Clark
I have no idea if her account was terminated. Her post implies that it was. Maybe she should clear this up for us.

I know that Jeff Miller ships snakes via Delta under the name of Morph Specialties. Savannah told me that she doesn't even know who Miller is. At one time she posted regularly on my own forum. Miller's picture and an article have been featured on the opening page. Its obvious to me that she lied.

I'm sure as soon as Savannah gets her facts together she'll have something to say and I look forward to hearing from her on this forum.

I sent Savannah two polite emails about this. She's told me that she doesn't know Miller. A few days later I was served with a court order to stop contacting her.

If Savannah's want's to be a legitimate member of this community she could easily have cleared this up last week. Instead she sent me a restraining order!

How long have you known that Savannah has known Miller? How many months? Why didn't you immediately expose this fact right away? Didn't you attempt to intimidate her into giving you the dwarf burms first and threaten to use her association with Miller to ruin her if she didn't "play ball"?

Nobody takes the time to file a restraining order because someone sends "two polite emails". This really makes me wonder. Maybe she should post the email contents and we can see how polite they are.

First off- I would like to say: What is between Jeff Miller and Bob Clark is between them not me, it’s unfair to try and ruin me and my business when the only thing proven is I know someone, period.

Ok, I had to check with the court before I posted here. Bob didn’t mention that he can’t contact me anymore because he harassed and threatened me over and over. The judge read all the emails from Bob and granted an Injunction of Harassment. (He just did actually) More on that later. This is going to be a very long post. I wasn’t going to bring this to the public, but since Bob did, I must tell the truth. I’m tired of being bullied, threatened and harassed. It will stop!

1) I never said in my post my account was canceled and never said Jeff Barringer did it. Kelli said Jeff doesn’t get involved in the day to day stuff and probably didn’t even know about this. Hmm. I will show what I think happened to my account, this is the only thing I can’t prove, but it’s obvious. I never gave this information out but Bob seems to know a little too much about it. Plus he came here and registered just to talk about me.

2) So Bob is saying a business isn’t legitimate unless a business advertises on kingsnake? I don’t have to “legitimize” my business, it is legit, in-fact it is a corporation. Plus, I have had an advertising account for several months with no problems until 2 days after Bobs email to me saying “Savannah,
If you post an ad to sell anything I will expose your connection to Miller. I think this will not be good for your business. Bob Clark”. This shows his intent to purposely harm my business.

The facts are: My account was canceled and the email came from Jeff Barringer directly on a Saturday If I remember right. There was no reason given and I emailed him several times and Barringer won’t email me back to give a reason.


Now.. It’s obvious this is just an attempt at assassination. Bob threatened he would do this and now he has, its no surprise. Bob forgot to mention the restraining order didn’t he? I will show everything, not that I have to, a judge already looked at the emails and agreed it was harassment. I will prove everything I say. On the other hand, Bob shows no proof. And in fact, he won’t say what he is insinuating. Why? Because it’s a lie and he can be sued. So he will slip by the courts reach by hinting at stuff rather than openly saying it. As it stands, all Bob has said is: I know a guy!! He hasn’t said I rip people off, he hasn’t said I have done anything wrong. All he can do is say, I know Jeff Miller. I do and it’s funny because it’s not a secret. The only person I denied it to was Bob, I thought it would keep me from being harassed, and, well I was wrong! Geez, imagine if I told Bob I knew Miller. Would it have been 10 times worse?

Sure, there are some truths to what Bob says and they aren’t secrets. I do know Mrs. Wong. I do not know her husband Anson Wong, when he was arrested in 1998, I was 13, I think. Sure, I know Jeff, but that is it. He helps me out with some animals once in a while. He even dropped a shipment off a delta for me because I couldn’t get to the airport. There is nothing illegal about that. In-fact, you getting this info from delta is illegal. Now Bob has broken the law 2 times. He doesn’t own any of my animals. Actually, Morph Specialties, Inc. does and I’m the president.

This is nothing more than a petty attempt to ruin me because I am competition. I will show emails of how Bob tried very hard to buy the Dwarf Burms from Asia and when they wouldn’t sell to him he started harassing me. Bob tried to get my supplier to go behind my back; you will see all this in the actual emails I post.

For those that don’t know. I have the only Dwarf Burms in captivity. I bought the entire group before anyone here even knew they were found. I got lucky! These are very small and females breed at 5 ½’. Males at 3-3 ½’. I have eggs incubating. The eggs are Ball Python size. Please see my webpage for more info on the burms and about the harassment from Bob. www.morphspecialties.com/index1.html
I haven’t posted all the info here, but please feel free to read the rest, smaller details on my website.

This is all politics. Bob knows the future of Burms will now lean towards smaller animals of more manageable sizes and more economical feeding cost. There is already a solid foundation for these with a plethora of color and pattern morphs to breed into them. There are so many reasons why these will become popular.
Another is the city and state laws restricting larger snakes.

Here is all the emails from Bob in order. Then following will be the emails from Jeff Barringer and emails from the Asian supplier to Bob, showing how Bob was trying to buy these and trying to get them to go behind my back. There weren’t just emails. After the 5th email, I called Bob and he threatened to come and take the snakes from me. And not nicely. He also yelled and screamed at me until I got very upset and was in tears. I had to just get off the phone. He asked me to call him and I did. I wouldn’t call him back because of how I was treated, who wants to be yelled at? Plus even before he emailed me he told a person we both know that because I’m in the same state as miller and deal with this connection in Asia, they must be Miller’s. NO PROOF AT ALL. No matter how many times Bob says it or insinuates it, it won’t make it true. Where are the facts, where is the proof. There is none, its all made up in Bob’s head. Yes, I’m sure some will believe him because he is Bob and that’s sad. I have shown enough proof for the court system while Bob has showed none.

When reading these, remember, I am the owner of these snakes, not Miller, so in-fact when Bob says he wont allow Miller to profit from these, he really means, he wont allow me to profit. This is exactly what he is trying to do.

Bob is also right; I’m not a smuggler or a thief. Me having these animals must really be bugging the [bleep] out of Bob. He can’t get them so he comes here to let the world know I know Miller. Is that it? From a 50 year old man too. Bob was also served at home on a Sunday, that wasn’t my doing, was the serving company, hope it didn’t affect his wife and 3 kids. There is a difference, I don’t want to do harm or harass, I want to be left alone and the lies to stop.

This is more than enough evidence to show what is really going on here. Due to legal matters that are going to be filed, I doubt I will post anymore on this topic.

I do own these animals. I do know miller, I do know Mrs. Wong. I’ve never done anything, I explained how I got my animals. I’m not a front to Miller, bob will never believe it because that’s what he believes. But there isno proof what so ever as to what Bob is saying. AT ALL. And I don’t know the “most notorious animal smuggler, Ive never even talked to him. Im assuming he means Anson Wong.

Thank you all,
Savannah Sernas

(I wasn’t able to find a few of the emails, especially from me to him. But to be fair I will tell you what they said in general. I told Bob I didn’t know Jeff Miller as I said and explained above. I will keep looking for the saved file and when I find it, I will post it. This was a lot of info I’ve been trying to compile over the last day, I will get the rest of it. You can then see where my emails pick up.)
First email from Bob:

From: "Bob Clark" <albinos@swbell.net> | Add to Address Book

To: morphspecialties@yahoo.com
Subject: dwarf Burmese
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:45:46 -0500





Hi,
I'm interested in the dwarf Burmese. You have eggs incubating? When will they hatch? Could I visit you and see the animals? Bob


Bob’s 2 email:

From: "Bob Clark" <albinos@swbell.net> | Add to Address Book

To: "Savannah" <morphspecialties@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: dwarf Burmese
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:07:55 -0500





Savannah,
I have never slandered you or posted anything about you ever, anywhere. Do you know that Jeff Miller ships under your name? Bob


Bob’s 3 email:

From: "Bob Clark" <albinos@swbell.net> | Add to Address Book

To: "Savannah" <morphspecialties@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: dwarf Burmese
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:10:29 -0500





Savannah,
Maybe it would be easier it we talk on the phone. What's your number? You can call me at 800234-5910 if you like. BOb

Bob’s 4 email

From: "Bob Clark" <albinos@swbell.net> | Add to Address Book

To: "Savannah" <morphspecialties@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: dwarf Burmese
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:27:31 -0500





Again, I've never said anything against you. Let's talk on the phone. I've got some things to discuss. Can you call me, please? Bob

Bob’s 5 email: (I called Bob after this email to show him I wasn’t Miller, this wasn’t good enough. I proved this theory wrong and Bob moved onto this current, front theory. And for this reason, I wouldn’t call him back and just ignored him as much as possible.)

From: "Bob Clark" <albinos@swbell.net> | Add to Address Book

To: "Savannah" <morphspecialties@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: dwarf Burmese
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:41:30 -0500





Savannah,
I just want to be sure I'm not talking to Jeff. Please take a minute to call me. Bob

Bob’s 6 email:

From: "Bob Clark" <albinos@swbell.net> | Add to Address Book

To: "Savannah" <morphspecialties@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: dwarf Burmese
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:32:39 -0500





Savannah,
I'm in my office now if you want to call and talk this over. 405-722-5017. Believe me I've got nothing against you, only Jeff Miller. If you're not associated with him you have nothing to worry about. Bob

Bob’s 7 email:

From: "Bob Clark" <albinos@swbell.net> | Add to Address Book

To: "Savannah" <morphspecialties@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: dwarf Burmese
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:23:36 -0500





Still waiting.

Bob’s 8 email:

From: "Bob Clark" <albinos@swbell.net> | Add to Address Book

To: "Savannah" <morphspecialties@yahoo.com>
Subject: morphs webpagege
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:42:07 -0500





Savannah,
Still waiting for you call. Unless I hear from you today I will expose you and Jeff on Kingsnake. Bob Clark

My Reply to above:

Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:56:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Savannah" <morphspecialties@yahoo.com> | Add to Address Book

Subject: Re: morphs webpagege
To: "Bob Clark" <bob@bobclark.com>





Bob,

Do not contact me or attempt to contact me in anyway and threatening to expose lies about me, STOP. I don’t appreciate you telling me you will take my animals from me. And since Jeff Miller doesn’t own them, I don’t know how you would take them anyway. I own these animals, it doesn’t matter who I know or what people I know do. Whats between you and Jeff Miller is between you and him, it has nothing to do with me. Please leave me out of it.

Savannah

Bob’s email back: (9)

From: "Bob Clark" <albinos@swbell.net> | Add to Address Book

To: "Savannah" <morphspecialties@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: morphs webpagege
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:55:29 -0500





Still waiting for your call.

My Reply:

Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:08:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Savannah" <morphspecialties@yahoo.com> | Add to Address Book

Subject: Re: morphs webpagege
To: "Bob Clark" <bob@bobclark.com>





Bob,

Please for the second time, do not contact me directly or indirectly by email, phone, or public forum, or any other way. You made me cry already, told me you would take my animals from me and are threatening to post your lies about me. Whatever you have against Jeff Miller is with you and him, not me. For the last time, leave me a lone, Im scared of you and I feel you are harassing me. You are black-mailing me into calling you. You say you will post about me if I don’t call, please just leave me a lone. I’m a young girl who took her savings and went into business and you are upset I got animals you want. You are already trying to ruin my business and my name because I know someone. Please leave me a lone. Please.

Thank you
Have a good day,
Savannah

Bob’s email back: (10) (One of my fav. Now why would I use my own money, my own contacts, my own import license, my own customers and give away my profit to Miller? Just doesn’t make sense does it? Who would do something like that?

Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:51:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Bob Clark" <albinos@swbell.net> | Add to Address Book

Subject: Re: morphs webpagege
To: "Savannah" <morphspecialties@yahoo.com>






Savannah,
I know that Miller can't have an import license and that he's using you to bring animals into the country. Miller needs you to deal with the public because he can't show his face anywhere. He needs your money because he doesn't have any. Remember I've known Anson Wong for over 20 years. I know what's going on here. I won't allow Miller to profit from it. Bob Clark

PS I only asked you to call me because you promised to do it already. Maybe you should have Miller call me instead. He's more afraid of me than you are!

My Reply:

Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:03:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Savannah" <morphspecialties@yahoo.com> | Add to Address Book

Subject: Re: morphs webpagege
To: bob@bobclark.com





BOB,

Enough, stop emailing me. You are wrong, I know Bing Shee, she sells to me, I have never dealt with Anson Wong her husband. These Burms and all other animals are owned by morph specialties INC. I am the owner of morph specialties INC. Now please stop contacting me, don’t contact me any further anymore. Please leave me out of it, please do not spread lies and rumors. NO MORE EMAILS.
JEFF MILLER DOESN’T OWN ANY OF MY ANIMALS. For the last time, if you want to go after Jeff Miller go after him directly, not to me or through me and leave my animals out of it. Please I dont want to call you, I dont want to talk to you via email or any other way. Stop harassing me. For the 3rd time.

Savannah

Bob’s email back: (11)

Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:59:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Bob Clark" <albinos@swbell.net> | Add to Address Book

Subject: Re: morphs webpagege
To: "Savannah" <morphspecialties@yahoo.com>





Savannah,
This is not harassment. You've made some choices and there are consequences for them. Anson is in prison now and last year Jeff was too. I can't go directly to Miller he's afraid to even answer his phone unless he knows who is calling. You are my only connection to him. I know he is using your import license and money to do business. Aside from the fact that you've lied to me I have no reason to believe that you are anything but a naive girl. Believe me, if people knew he was involved here you would not sell any animals at all. If you want me to deal directly with Miller have him call me. I assure you he won't. He'd rather have you be his front. Bob

Bob’s 12 and last email (due to restraining order):

From: "Bob Clark" <albinos@swbell.net> | Add to Address Book

To: "Savannah" <morphspecialties@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: morphs webpagege
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:34:31 -0500





Savannah,
If you post an ad to sell anything I will expose your connection to Miller. I think this will not be good for your business. Bob Clark


Now here are the emails from Asia to Bob. Bob was trying pretty hard to get these dwarf Burmese from my supplier. Bob even said to go “behind my back”. Also note the date as it relates to the starting of his harassing me. He found out he couldn’t get the dwarf burms so his next step is to harass and scare me into giving them up?? Then that didn’t work, his next step was to ruin me and discredit me. These emails were forwarded to me by my supplier.


The first message from asia to bob in reply to bob wanting to buy dwarf Burmese from asia. You can see what they told bob. He wasn’t going to give up yet though, read the second one to bob.
----- Original Message -----
From: <-----------@pc.jaring.my>
To: "Bob Clark" <bob@bobclark.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 10:48 AM


Bob,
Just came back from business trip in USA. Thanks for your mail &
patient. I wish to sell the dwarf burmese to everybody but my only customer
Savannah Morphs Specialist) has given me money upfront for all I am having. As
Our agreement, I could not sell to others. Therefore, I must keep to my
promises and principle of business in between. Sorry and looking forward to do business with you in the near future.


Thank you.
Best regards,
Bing Shee


Bob told her this.
”Maybe its not necessary that Savannah knows that we do business”


This is the second email from asia to bob. Notice the reply about “going behind savannahs back” Also notice the date on both of these and how it relates to the starting of his harassment. This is how I got my connections. You think one must be in the business for a certain amount of time to be able to know someone? To answer the question, I got their numbers from a directory put out years ago by a company in Lodi California, great Valley Serpt. This is the words from the dealer not me. Bob told her this same stuff about miller, well here is proof positive. Nothing Bob says holds water. Its all CRAP.
From: <-----------@pc.jaring.my>
To: bob@bobclark.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 12:32 PM
Subject: Re:

Bob,

Thanks for your reply.

I really don't know who is Jeff Miller,I dealth with only Savannah, she is new in business, similar to who I was 5 years ago. I will give her a chance similar to my customers in USA & Europe gave me a chance to sell & puchase as well as they thought me a lot this this fields.

It is not good in principle I am behind her back, but if there is other than dwarf burmese, I will try to offer you.

You are such a successful man and professional in this field, give her a chance as well.

My treatment to all my customers are similar.

Regards, Bing Shee



And here is email from Jeff Barringer just 2 days after bobs email above, saying “Savannah,
If you post an ad to sell anything I will expose your connection to Miller. I think this will not be good for your business. Bob Clark”

Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:53:00 -0500
From: "Jeff Barringer" <jeffb@pethobbyist.com>
To: <morphspecialties@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 16512 - Secure Online Credit Card Transaction

We are sorry but we will be unable to supply advertising services
to your business.