Rick Sisco - Sisco Reptiles

Originally Posted by Wolfy-hound

Rick already answered both those questions Bobby. He did so way back if you'd read it.
I don't see why anyone should have to prove what someone else's animals are.
Bobby can't prove his animals came from any certain spot. If he wants to call them Chacoans, or white heads, or giants, then fine. They are great big tegus. They have slightly different coloration. Whether they are a morph of normals, or a new species or some variant of komodo dragon, it has nothing at all to do with Rick's handling of a sale that Bobby had nothing to do with.
Let's face it, Bobby has it out for Rick. He's mad that he gave to a friend, and I guess didn't get back the same amount. Whatever personal falling out they had doesn't belong on BOI. It belongs between them, and to see a thread degrade to the same ranting and raving is pointless.
Theresa Baker

Well if that is the case, I will sell you some normal balls as Mojaves, I mean I can call them that correct?

As for the personal part, it might just be personal, but is also shows what an honest good guy he really is.

Josh, did TeguLevi get a DOA pastel ball python from Rick? If so, how could this tegu be his first DOA as he claims? I mean you are trying to act like you did not know about more DOAs, but you do, correct?

Josh is it also true that you told me that you know Rick is not telling the truth, but that you live real close to him and do not want any problems with him? And you are a Mod for him too, correct?

Is it not also true that claimed to produce 90 tegus, but that he bought 90 from Bert? When asked about this he said it was for his local pet shops, however, 90 tegus could supply the whole east coast of pet shops. So what did he do with all them tegus? And to make a claim that tegus change colors during breeding is proof he knows nothing about breeding them.

Also Bert claims if a tegu misses a hibernation it will not breed, all of Ricks have missed hibernations. He is also the only one that claims they will breed without hibernation, it just is not true.

It is also a fact that there is no proof at all he has ever produced a tegu. Not an egg, a baby hatching, nothing at all. He has pictures of his normal balls hatching and pastels, and has many pictures of corns hatching and eggs, but no tegus, he even has videos of his adult tegus, but nothing showing anything that he is/has been breeding tegus, why is this?

He did buy the 90 from Bert, did he sell them as hatchlings produced by him?

Originally Posted by varnyard:
I have dealt with Rick!! He is a awesome guy. He is also one of my best friends, even though we never met in person. He is a good guy for sure, as well as a great asset to the reptile community. He is well deserving of a good guy thread here!!

Originally Posted by varnyard:
There is much more to the story about Rick, soon after I met and befriended him, he was into corn snakes. He asked if there was a way he could get some normal corns that were not het for anything, he said all of the normals on line were het for something. I went out and caught him some wild corns here, I boxed them up and shipped them out to him, free.

That was really cool of you Bobby.

Originally Posted by varnyard:
I also sent him a corn snake morph guide; it was not a regular copy, but an autographed copy. It was and will be worth much more than a normal copy. I sent it out to him as well, free. I had two of the first Reptile’s magazine articles that Bert ever posted in on tegus, I sent one to him, free.

Again, Very cool thing to do. Did he ask for it?

Originally Posted by varnyard:
Soon after I became an admin on his sites to help him with his sites. This past year I had a contest on his site and gave way two tegus, these too did not cost him one dime. I did this to help promote his site. Therefore, yet another free gift to him, free.
I also sent him two free baby tegus this year out of my stock for himself, again, free. He never paid a dime on any of this, not even on shipping.

Very nice things to do for your friend, but it sounds like you were runnnnnning a tab on all of your free gifts.

Originally Posted by varnyard:
I do not remember getting anything from him except a copied DVD on ball pythons, that’s it. I asked him about two of his T-Shirts, he quickly gave me a link to pay for them, which I did. I also asked him about my photo album on his site where I was an admin for him. I got a notice that my album was full and needed to be upgraded. I asked him how I could upgrade it, he gave me a link to pay $15 for that as well.

Damn Rick, you couldn't give your best friend 2 t-shirts after he gave you all that stuff. That sucks man, and I can kinda' see why Bobby may have expected some free shirts and a photo album upgrade. Not that friends should keep score when giving to one another but it shouldn't be a one way street.

Originally Posted by varnyard:
Then came the discussion about going to Daytona, he was all for it. Later as time grew closer to time for the show, he contacted me and said his wife would be unable to go. He said he just really did not have the needed funds. I told him I would pay for their room if they came. Rick then reserved an airplane ticket for just himself, I told him that was fine because my sitter for my baby backed out on keeping him. So at this point my wife decided to stay at home with our baby, as well as take care of our animals.

So Rick was not going to make the trip because he didn't have the needed funds. You then offered to pay for a hotel rooom for him and his wife.

Originally Posted by varnyard:
I contacted Rick and told him that my wife was staying home as well, and that we could just share a room. I did know that my friend was broke and could not afford to pay for much at Daytona. I was prepared to pay for everything, and was not upset about doing so. I rented the car to keep from putting all the miles on my own vehicle, rented the room. Went to Orlando and picked him up. I will admit we had fun, went herpin and just enjoyed joking and cutting up. We joined up with some friends of mine and had a blast.

Both of y'alls wives decided to stay home so you only rented the one room you were going to need whether Rick came down or not. You decide to rent a car to keep what, 400-500 miles off your own vehicle? You said that you were prepared to pay for everything, and were'nt upset about doing so. I think not.

Originally Posted by varnyard:
I drank maybe three beers the whole time we were there, because I was doing all the driving, of the three he bought me one. I paid for almost all the meals and gas, parking garage etc. I had no problem with this at first, but then he showed me just what he was about. Remember, by his own statement on his site he was broke. Well guess what? He was not broke; he bought a spider ball python, a blue tegu, and a Red x Black n white from Bert. He also bought dimmer switches and a few other dry goods. If was to guess, probably around $1500.00 to $2000.00 dollars worth of things. Keep in mind he was unable to pay anything on the room, car etc.

Why didn't Rick drive? Was it because you are from Florida and know the area? Maybe the rental agreement/insurance? Does he have a drivers license? Imagine that, Rick had you be the designated driver and only bought you one beer...lol.

Originally Posted by varnyard:
He did give all of his goods to me, along with $50.00 to ship everything to him, he could not take them on the plane.

Get these snakes off the mother plane .

Originally Posted by varnyard:
He now asks what happen to the friendship, need he really ask?

$$$ MONEY! $$$

Originally Posted by varnyard:
I know the last part is personal, but it shows the true colors behind the man. I will not ever deal with Rick again, or call him any kind of friend. He is great at cut throat and this is something I choose not to call friendship.

It shows more than just Ricks true colors. You are willing to throw away a "best friend" over a few green backs.

Seriously Bobby,
Rick was not going to come down because he did not have the needed funds. I wouldn't travel to an expo if I couldn't afford to purchase anything either. You offered to pay some of his travel expenses because you wanted to meet one of your "best friends." You offered to rent him his own room, which after y'alls wives backed out wasn't even necessary. He could have paid half for the room, but it didn't cost you any more money for Rick to share your room. The rental car was all you, but he should have given you some gas money.

Originally Posted by Rick Sisco:
This is a whole new can of worms. Plain and simple, my "white heads" are "chacoans", just as Ron St Pierres "white heads" were "chacoans". There was recent discussion related to the chacoans, a name termed by Ron St Pierre. In the end, there is no way for Ron to prove the origins of his chacoans, which is probably why he stopped using the term a couple years ago and now uses "white heads". I have no way of providing documentation that mine came from the region of Chaco either, so I am now using the term "white heads", and Bobby Hill can not prove the origins of his, which is why his are now called "extreme giants." There is no way for anyone with a "chacoan" to prove it's origins. In the name of being as honest as I can, I decided to stop using the name "chacoan" too.

Rick admits that he can't prove his tegu's are from Chaco, and now represents his as "white heads." He also say's that Ron and Bobby can not prove that their tegu's are from Chaco either, and that Ron represents his as "white heads" also, and that Bobby Hill represents his as "extreme giants."
I don't see any misrepresentation's. Ron and Rick stopped calling theirs Chacoans because they can't prove the origin. Bobby can't prove that his are originally from Chaco either so instead of calling them Chacoans based on local, he now calls them "extreme, or true giants" because they are obviously larger than Rick's, or Ron's.

It was never about the money, it was about the back stabbing. You sound like Rick, can you not see this is not how you treat a friend?

I never cared about the money, but damn don't lie to me and use me and then claim your my friend. I do not need that type as a friend.

Do you call that a friend? I do not.

As for the gifts, hell I do that with all my close friends, I even give away tegus. But when true colors come out, it is not hard to see who is a true friend, thats something Rick never was.

RJK,
I think you miss the point. Helping out Rick with the money was not a problem as I read it, as Bobby was told by Rick that he didn't have it. Under that assumption, which seems to have been "as Bobby was told", he helped Rick out. Rick then spent a bunch of money on critters. If that wouldn't piss you off RJK, you are a more passive man than me. As you then note, Rick couldn't throw a few crumbs to Bobby. And then, in Bobby's view, Rick back-stabbed him by undermining his product. If that is how it happened, I have no problem with Bobby putting it here. Was bound to blow somewhere. Money IS business.

I won't comment on all the personal stuff, or the tegu stuff (I know nothing about tegus). It seems to me though that Rick acted appropriately in his handling of the DOA animal. I agree that asking his customer to pay for shipping the body back was not right, but he did change his mind and replaced her animal with another. As far her tegu being a Chacoan, it sounds like no one seems to know for sure if their tegus are in fact from Chaco or not. Rick said that he recently changed the name he markets his former Chacoans as (sounds like both Bobby and Bert did this also). The only question I have is: was this change implemented before or after the woman bought her tegu from Rick?

You know what Bobby? You can't prove where your tegus come from, how about YOU answer THAT question? Your tegus are "giants" they aren't "Chacoan".
You CANNOT prove a negative, so asking someone else to prove they AREN"T Chacoan is ridiculous. I can ask you to PROVE that my ball pythons aren't from australia.
You spout off about lots of stuff, and turn every conversation into all sorts of other stuff, including how much you've given to someone, then you say it wasn't about the money. It's patently ridiculous that you have to drag every comment about any tegu into some personal vendetta about whether YOUR tegus are this or that.
There's other opinions about tegus other than yours. Just because you know a heck of a lot about tegus doesn't mean you have the right to declare martial law regarding any tegu anywhere. Why can't you produce gorgeous tegus and sell them to happy people and be a happy person?

This is more than I have posted in a thread in about 18 months. "In for a penny, in for a pound", I figure.

Some here have referred to the "personal stuff", maybe that it is inappropriate, or that it has no bearing here, should not be here, etc. Obviously, those views are more than valid for those who hold them as guides to their own conduct. I see every "personal" point raised as involving money. Money spent around a reptile show, reptile products, reptile services, and product reputation. Even if there was a personal loan involved, that was then disregarded, we have seen those issues raised here in the BOI times past measuring character. To those to whom "personal" is taboo here, I am of a different opinion. Its all character, and character matters IMMHO. Webslave has maintained over and over again how he may let a thread go on solely to reveal character, so that readers may judge. It is unfortunate to even hint at names here, but we all can recall notables who ended up being very bad for the business, and in hindsight many here pointed to the character warning signs that were ignored.

I don't buy tegus, and Rick in Maine may not buy chameleons, at least not mine. But if I had money issues with others in the business that were business related, just not the exact transaction of a reptile, then someone would be a fool to think that I was honorable with money from reptile sales while being dishonorable with other money. Only until adversity hits a little harder, cause then my dubious character will transcend even reptile sales.

Rick, my apologies for taking excessive liberties with the kind of person you may be, or even to hint that you are as others who ended up being heinous. But I would be blind as heck to say that the evidence on the table is to be disregarded. You have not rebutted Bobby's "personal" allegations, as well as some more strictly business, and that sir is worrisome to at least a few here.

Bobby, if ever we sit to have a few beers, we will alternate who buys each round.

Why can't you produce gorgeous tegus and sell them to happy people and be a happy person?

Count me as someone who thinks that Bobby had every right to call his big tegus "Chacoan Giant Tegus", or any variation thereof. He believed it, and had some reasonable second opinions to substantiate it.

If Bobby was the first to a name or label, the common tradition in the business is that he can claim to be proprietor of it until someone proves the animals already existed elsewhere, had been identified as such, etc. If someone comes along representing their product with the name Bobby coined, and they do not meet the criteria described, perhaps even failing miserably, then Bobby has a legitimate beef. We have seen this elsewhere in the business, where a pretender tries to ride the coat-tails of another. Nothing precluded Rick form coining his own name, but he picked what Bobby had branded. When questioned about his critters, rather than just backoff to a new name, etc, he then had to take down Bobby's brand. Its not just a matter of what you believe about the exact geographic location of origin, uniqueness of size, etc, as proving any of that as fact is a long ways off, and well beyond anyone's means here. Its more about "branding" and marketing IMMH and educated opinion, and Bobby was well within his bounds there. Hope that answers your question.

Originally Posted by Wolfy-hound

You CANNOT prove a negative, so asking someone else to prove they AREN"T Chacoan is ridiculous.

It's not as ridiculous as saying "you cannot prove a negative" or using a metaphor where you ask someone to prove that your ball pythons are from Australia.