Kingsnake problem, anyone else had this problem with classified account?

KS is a Jeff's private business.

Yes, that however does not mean you don't have to follow the laws.

If you look at:

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/

Then look into the cases that have been filed and settled you will see that Jeff is walking some very very fine lines with his actions. Mainly based on the fact the he makes up 95% of the online reptile hits, making him hands down the top dog. By comparison (from a percentage standpoint) even more so then the Microsoft OS .

If you also look into the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (or RICO) act you will see that based on the cases that have been brought to court and won Jeff is again walking/crossing a very fine line and while the RICO act was meant bring down the Mafia it has since become common in civil claims.

It allows civil claims to be brought by any person injured in their business or property by reason of a RICO violation. It can be applied to individuals, businesses, political protest groups, and terrorist organizations.

With that said, while it is Jeff's business there are some strong facts to show his cancellation of peoples accounts resulting in hardship and loss of business has been done with malice or less then valid reasons as his TOS are not enforced evenly and as such somebody WILL bite Jeff in the arse hard one day via our fine judicial system.

My feeling is that he is breaking laws and if not breaking them skirting them closely enough that a good lawyer could make a strong enough case for a ruling against Jeff and Kingsnake.

These are my feelings and while they apply to nothing in my life I would be more then happy to send anybody interested in the right directions.

Mainly based on the fact the he makes up 95% of the online reptile hits

Do you have proof of this or is this just a "feeling" you have? Proof means hard numbers (ie number of searches on reptile related terms, unique visitors that KS has, etc). I agree that KS pulls a large percentage and probably the largest percentage for a single site but there are a lot of sites out there that pull a large number of visitors.

I frankly do not feel that KS is the only place to pull sales and any business that bases itself on a single entity (see other various threads on shows lately, if your only doing shows then your headed for disaster as well) other than itself is setting itself up for failure.

MS has way more market penetration than anyone in the reptile industry.

Well, Savannah's post shows some pretty strong backing for a RICO act violation. Forget about the antitrust issues and the mites.

That post from Savannah is about the strongest post I've seen on the BOI and I think both Jeff Barringer and Bob have SOME MAJOR explaining to do.

First let me say, Bob is a good friend of mine. I have known about the connection of Savannah with Jeff Miller since a few weeks ago when all this started. There was never any attempt to "go public" with any of this, only an attempt to gather information about Jeff Miller and his resurfacing in the reptile world. Savannah denied that she even knew who Jeff Miller was. So now we know that Savannah is an admitted liar.

Let's all think logically about this issue. We have seen the emails. It proves that Bob tried several times to contact Savannah privately. If this was an attempt to hurt "competition", as if Savannah is competition to anyone, why would Bob attempt to contact her privately? Why wouldn't he come here first? This all started several weeks ago. Bob never came here with any of this. So think for a minute, the argument that this is just made up information to hurt the competition, doesn't make sense. He never posted on a forum until Savannah posted.

It is convient for Savannah and her aliases and cronies to try to change the subject and say that this is a competition thing. If she was so concerned about the success of her business, why involve a felon and notorious animal smuggler? I would never have a convicted animal smuggler take 15K worth of animals to the airport for me. What made her think that she could trust a felony animal smuggler with $15,000.00 worth of animals unless they were his too?


How many of you have connections in Maylasia? They are hard to get. Jeff Miller has them. How did this young girl from Arizona get them?

Holly cow, I thought the one post wonders only came to save me, now Bob has them in his corner too.

I have known about the connection of Savannah with Jeff Miller since a few weeks ago when all this started.

Connection? You mean them being friends? You're implying something more so do you have and proof there is more?

There was never any attempt to "go public" with any of this, only an attempt to gather information about Jeff Miller and his resurfacing in the reptile world.

Are you crazy? I see a post from Bob saying they knew each other, what motivation is there behind that? I know Naomi Campbell but that doesn't make me a pouty brat!

Savannah denied that she even knew who Jeff Miller was. So now we know that Savannah is an admitted liar.

Who cares? If I were friends with Jeff I wouldn't tell people. Not wanting somebody to know something is far from being a liar! Very far from it, I suggest you rethink what you're saying as I think you're making this look worse not better.

Read the emails. I stand by what I"ve said.

Let's settle one think right now. This has nothing to due with competition or jealosy. Bing Shee agreed to sell animals to me. Before Savannah got her animals they were offered to me from Europe as well. Savannah thinks this is how I deal with competition. Believe me I deal with competition by breeding more and better animals than my competition, being an effective salesman and offering better customer service. I've been doing this successfully for 30 years.

This thing might have taken a different course if Savannah had been truthful and fothcoming in the beginning. Instead she lied to me. Why? Why did she want to hide her relationship with Miller? She told me she didn't even know who he was.

I have repeatedly stated that I have no interest in Savannah herself, only her connecton to Miller. She's gone to some effort to hide it.

Why would Savannah, an innocent, hardworking businesswoman give 3 calico retics valued at $15K to Jeff Miller, liar, thief and convicted felon?

Holly cow, I thought the one post wonders only came to save me, now Bob has them in his corner too.

I make no apologies that I don't post often. I am busy breeding snakes, caring for them and offering service to my customers. I thought that I had something to offer here so I did. Why are you attacking me Adam, I have never done anything to you?

Not wanting somebody to know something is far from being a liar! Very far from it, I suggest you rethink what you're saying as I think you're making this look worse not better.

Bob asked her directly about Jeff Miller, Savannah told him that she didn't even know who that was. She now admits that was a lie. Hence the statement that she is an admitted liar.

"I have repeatedly stated that I have no interest in Savannah herself, only her connecton to Miller. She's gone to some effort to hide it."


You have no right at all to know the details of her life,You act as if you have the right to know how she runs her business and who she associates with in her PERSONAL life.She can be friends with and ask favors from anyone she wants.

If you would read her recent post you would see she told the world she knows miller,She already explained why she told you she said she didn't.I wouldnt have either in her situation.

If you were offered these burms before them,Then why didnt you buy them right then?Who would give up the offer for these and not lay down the cash right there and then..nobody.So i doubt that happened.

Connections in Malysia are not as big of a deal as you are making it out to seem.

And as far i know,Savannah didnt mention ANYTHING about bob but somehow..just somehow Bob seemed to post his FIRST post in this thread without Savannah even mentioning his name..hmmmmmmmm

And this BS about "Admitted liar"please..The girl was probally scarred out of her wits from all the threats to ruin her repuation and business.A honest person Admits to their mistakes,A LIAR..just keeps lying

Let's distill this controversy to the important facts:

Savannah has a relationship with Jeff Miller that she tried to hide.

Jeff Miller ships under the name of "Savannah's" company some animals that Savannah offered for sale.

Jeff Miller no longer has an import license and can't sell animals because of his soiled reputation.

Savannah, Jeff's neighbor, suddenly appears on the scene after Jeff's release from prison after serving time for a federal reptile smuggling conviction. She's offering animals imported from Anson Wong's company. Anson Wong is still serving time for his part in the smuggling scheme.


Any clearer?

I can see this getting really ugly......but I'm going to raise some points to think about as I have received a phone call from Josh ( Josh Burm Guy) who is a friend of Savannahs and who is someone that I got the impression she confided in, and I've also spoken with Bob.

These are my own personal observations.....

This is how I see Bob's point of view, Jeffery Miller robbed him of those Albino Ball Pythons back in 1994, Jeffrey Miller was sued and Bob was awarded damages in excess of $2 million dollars.

Jeffrey Miller is now out of Jail but has not made any attempts to pay back the damages.

Morph Specialties, opens its doors right around the time Jeffrey Miller is out of Jail.....

Savannah is 18 years old, this really doesnt give her a whole lot of time to have been able to build up the rapport, trust, and "reptile experience" in order to go after the "morphs" that spring up from overseas unless of course she had a boat load of money....but at her young age, I'm a little hesitant to see how that would be possible. Sorry for my ignorance, but I did not know Morph Specialties even existed til today and even worse that Savannah was in the Reptile trade prior to today.

Even if the money wasnt a issue, dealers from overseas dont just sell Morphs to anyone.

Savannah told Bob that she didnt know who Jeffrey Miller was, well she lied...however you want to look at it.

If she was trying to hide the fact that she did know Jeffrey Miller, then she must have also known why Bob asked her about Jeffrey Miller. The answer is........because technically Bob can go after anything and everything that is of value from Jeffrey Miller, Jeff Miller knows this too.

Bob was in no way trying to harass, intimidate, or blackmail Savannah from the very start as she has portrayed it,although it turned out that way because he was lied to and followed his instincts which told him that she did know Jeff Miller and the possibilities of these animals being owned or even co-owned by Miller were relatively good. And if Miller did own them.....guess what... Bob can go get them as partial re-imbursement for the damages awarded him.

The only fault I see with Bob is that he was very persistent about getting to the truth behind Savannah/Miller and his emotions got the better of him. But wouldnt you if this guy ripped you off ?

I have not spoken to Savannah, there for I wont comment on her point of view. But I will say that in speaking with Josh.....I tried to keep an open mind. I didnt talk with him in great lengths...but everything that Savannah stated in the previous post was repetitive of what Josh told me. The only thing I am a little confused about is the fact that Josh called me from a Florida area code and number....yet his profile says he's in California. Nothing against you Josh...but honesty is the best policy from the get go.

So the motto of the story goes......Bob wanted the Retics and offered to purchase them, when Savannah kept dodging and lieing about the questions pertaining to Miller...his emotions got the better of him and he became very persistent at trying to find out the truth.

Savannah.......if everything you have said about just being a acquaintance of Millers is true....then why go through what you went through just to deceive Bob ?

Had you just been honest from the get go......I dont believe that it would've gotten this blown up.

All the man wanted was what could've been rightfully his if Miller did own these snakes, and by you lieing to him about it...you yourself added the fuel to the fire.

If someone ripped me off the way Miller ripped Bob off, you bet your ass I would be scouring the earth for any kind of info I can get pertaining to his whereabouts, personal and business dealings, financial status, or anything else I can use against him.

And if Savannah is everything she claims to be with saving up her money and getting into the reptile business...I applaud her every efforts and have just one final question........when and how old were you when you realized this is what you wanted to do for a living considering no one has ever just gotten into this business without first being a hobbyist and collector of some sort prior to being a dealer/broker/breeder and non the less a broker of HIGH END INVESTMENT QUALITY MORPHS ?