bryancho possible scam

Yes that's my male and my female

Originally Posted by Bryancho

Yes that's my male and my female

No, in my last post, the snow is MY female. I took that photo today.

What I'm trying to do is show you the difference in the two animals and why, exactly, your male is NOT a snow.

Ok if his not snow what kind of sand boa he is cos I got him as a snow then I can get my money back thanks.

Originally Posted by Bryancho

Ok if his not snow what kind of sand boa he is cos I got him as a snow then I can get my money back thanks.

See my earlier post.

Originally Posted by scaledverts

That male is not a snow. He might be a hypo anery though.

The other thing to consider here is that in an earlier post he states he had the female form 3-4 months before she dropped her babies. Since sand boas are s live bearing species their gestation time is MUCH longer than other snakes. Gestation times of 3-4 months are not unheard of but that is pretty short. Typically you are looking at around twice that length of time.

I would bet that the female was bred to something else before he got her and that is why the genetics don't work out on this one.

That being said, there is something going on with that male. He is not a snow, but he is not a regular looking anery either. It is possible, as I mentioned above, that he is a hypo anery. There has also been some debate as to whether there are two types of anery (A and B like in corn snakes). I'm not sure if this ever got worked out but there was some speculation about it and the male looks a lot like what people were claiming was "anery B."

Did you get any pics of the snows produced?

Without knowing the background of the snake it is hard to say for sure. However, he is definitely anery. Time and breeding trials will tell whether he is hypo also.

It looks to me like:

1.) He purchased the male as a snow and truly believed it is a snow. It was probably sold to him as such and he, simply not knowing any better, has kept that label and applied it to his snake as he was told that is what it was when he bought it. Maybe the original seller of this male is calling this animal a "snow" based on the fact that it is some form of T+ albino or hypo line and failed to mention its not the same as the classic albino/anery snow, whether intentionally or not. I run into this crap a lot in the thamnophis hobby, with there being quite a few strains of "albino" eastern garter snake alone, none compatible, and yet people will call any combination of any of them with a melanistic or an anery a "snow" and it gets REALLY confusing if people don't understand how genetics work and that there are different lines of things. It would really help if people would stop calling animals "snows" when they are a line of hypo/albino that still has melanin. IMO you could call it a dirty snow at best. If people would learn to apply the term "snow" to only a true amelanistic/anerythristic animal, a lot of this could be avoided across our hobby.

2.) he purchased an anery het albino female that was already gravid and if she DID drop snows, she was previously bred by what was likely an albino het anery or a normal DH anery/albino. If he really got 15 snows, it's more likely that the sire was albino het anery, but it's not impossible that it was a normal male DH albino/anery. The sire simply could not have been anery because those are clearly normals. What we don't have is photos of all the albino babies, possibly, some of them were actually regular albinos and not all snows? That would have fit the odds a little better than 15 snows, 5 normals and NO aneries and NO albinos. But that's not to say it was entirely impossible... just extremely odd to luck out like that. Going by the fact that he says he only had the snake for 3-4 months, I don't think he had her long enough for her to have been bred by that weird chocolate looking male. (I don't know a ton about the gestation and breeding of sand boas)

WHATEVER the case... nothing is ruled out or proven 100%.... and i'm not trying to side with anyone.... this was just some speculation.... this is what happens when you are bored and waiting to go into labor!!!

We are still waiting to find out how 15 baby snows and 5 baby normals adds up to 23.

Originally Posted by aSnakeLovinBabe

It looks to me like:

What we don't have is photos of all the albino babies, possibly, some of them were actually regular albinos and not all snows?

It's also possible that if his "weird" anery male sired the litter, what he got and was calling snows were more "weird" anerys, and not snows since he clearly doesn't really seem to know how to identify the morphs.

Originally Posted by SirenSanJose

It's also possible that if his "weird" anery male sired the litter, what he got and was calling snows were more "weird" anerys, and not snows since he clearly doesn't really seem to know how to identify the morphs.

I guess we won't know if the snow offspring were weird anerys, because he says he sold them all without taking any pictures... Even ignoring the half-length gestation period though, I still think it's unlikely because if I suppose the male is anery and that he did sire that litter with the other anery female, then there wouldn't be any normals produced right? He claims to have gotten fifteen snows and five normals from her.

I don't mean anything by it, but personally I don't think the morph of that male is that important to this thread. What stands out to me more is the way he keeps changing his story, so you know he has to be lying about some things. No real explanations, just "I changed my mind".
He got twenty babies. He got twenty-three.
The dam is normal het for snow. The dam is anery het for snow.
It's one thing to make mistakes, but these are big and he hasn't admitted to a single one.

Originally Posted by EXCLUSIVELY EXOTICS

He was offering up for sale and still is here 2.3 "normal phased 100% het snow" kenyan sand boas. ... I asked what the parents are and he informed me the father is a male snow and the mother is an anery 100% het snow. I asked him for pics and he sent me pics of his adults. 1 female angry and 1 male snow. I asked what he produced from the pairing and he informed me 15 snows and the 5 normals het snow.

Here it sounds like he produced them himself and he says several times in this thread that the dam he purchased a couple months ago gave birth to those while in his care.

But in the ad he has posted here now though he says -"I have 5 kenyan sand boa got the 2 months ago sold to me as het for anery" which sounds like the babies were purchased a few weeks ago, not produced in his care then.

They've also seem to have gone from being het snows, to het anerys, and he just posted an ad in craigslist that doesn't mention the possibility of them being het for anything at all.


I don't know, it just seems like a messy operation. I can't say whether you're trying to scam anyone Bryan, but at the very least you've got to understand how this looks. There's no reason for it to be this confusing.

He just posted this on the classifieds here:

"I have 5 kenyan sand boa got the 2 months ago sold to me as het for anery I'm asking for $50 each or take all for $200 + shipping txt me back for picture 714-765-9309 or trade for ball python thanks"

What is it Bryan? Did your female give birth to them or did you buy them? All of a sudden these are now just pos het anery? Boy am I glad I didn't go through with the deal. When I spoke to him on the phone he did tell me he had this pair for a long time and have been breeding since last year, maybe he forgot to mention this or really thought he only got them 3-4 months ago.. I have been busy so I didn't really read all the ads, just figured I mention this. Bryan this can all be cleared up if you just admit your mistake, apologize and tell the truth. Did you buy them and say you produced them. All the evidence now does point in a different direction.

Vic

Just in case this ad goes away:
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/...2/76ea9eee.jpg

See pic of ad