STOLEN DRAGONS!! (tim or amanda miller)

Just to be sure anyone in the community who cares will be able to keep up with this and to prevent any misunderstandings or anyone feeling insulted by my posts, I am leaving what Andrea addressed to me in black and my answers are in red.

I posted the post below after I had already accidentally posted the thread you are answering now.

Again!!!! I apologize, I used the name Andrea and I meant Lucille. So again I have mixed up posts, the people who posted and what was said in various post. Please excuse me ... if I wrote something that did not apply to you or Andrea I beg your forgiveness.
__________________
I gave you a truthful response to that matter and yet you still seem to not understand it, but ONCE AGAIN that is only what I would do IF I was in this situation.
I understood your detailed response and appreciate that you took your time to answer me. Thank you.



If you are referring to me as the you part then you are mistaken. I at NO time called anything white trash.
I will answer this below

I do however understand why that post was written and that is because this was a domestic issue that should NOT have been brought here to this website and should have been dealt with behind closed doors. You say you are afraid for the future because of how some people view this thread then try to understand the basis for that statement. This was a domestic issue and it was in poor taste to have been posted as a Bad Guy thread that named Tim Miller or Amanda Miller as thiefs.

If Tina was just truly trying to Inform the reptile community then why did she not go for an INFORMATIVE heading?
Thank you for letting me know about and Informative heading. I will be sure to stick to business issues regardless of what kind of post I initiate.



YOU stated that this is business related and that was why you were not deleting the the thread.
I did not state that. What I said in regard to the white trash blurb was: "I also quoted another person's rant in my post. It was not quoted with the standard quotes because I was unable to bring their quote into my reply...I also never said you were calling people white trash and if you read through the thread you will see that someone else did offhandedly refer to the issue of this situation contributing to the the view of world outside of reptile breeding as that we are all white trash. I apologize for any insult that you may have felt that I intended when I mentioned that information. I had no such intention. I will clarify that I was replying to several things stated through out the entire seven pages of thread." In regard to the part about deleting the thread, what I said was: "I agree with your statement." and below is a direct quote from AndreaH which was (post #49)
"Greathouse I agree that their personal dispute needs to be resolved outside of this website and out of this thread. I personally do not care what separated them, but the question that I do care about is "WHO is the rightful owner of the dragons?" "WHO do we contact in the future to purchase a dragon from these breeders?" "WHO is responsible for making sure all orders have been taken care of since this seems to be a termination of a business?". As stated in the title of this thread "STOLEN DRAGONS!!(tim and amanda miller)" was posted and started by Tina Noll, so when you say this has nothing to do with business Im very sorry to inform you but it does. Does it have to go into their personal problems...NO, but as already stated by me and a mod. this thread is here to stay. Tina now has accused Tim or Amanda Miller of theft here on this website and could have harmed any potential business for either of them in the future and it needs to be cleared up ASAP." [/color]

I am NOT a mod. on this website, so just to make you aware.... I do NOT have the power to delete a thread. Once again you are making an assumption about me that in FACT is not true. I however AM a member and have been here on this website for 3 years, so I do know the rules that they have put in place. If your are not a MOD then someone other than you posted post # 49 which part of the statement I highlighted in blue above makes it sound as if you are to anyone who does not know who is a mod and who is not on this forum.


Right now if you want to keep quoting PLEASE make very sure that it is my quotes only because I can not answer for others opions.


I'm sorry, I haven't had much experience in regard to family disputes over animals, only personal property items. I simply thought if Tim produced information that showed definitively that the dragons were his, it would be an open and shut case. He would have been able to go in and point out what belonged to him and take possession of the animal(s). I wasn't aware that the authorities could take possession of an animal.
As I said I was answering another who posted in the thread as a whole and you are correct, I should have been more careful to have specifically mentioned the person I was answering.

The law should not have been contacted over this because even here in Indiana they can confiscate any animals if they see fit. If your animals are not registered with the town and/or county... then oh yes, they can take them and you might never see them again. That was a very poor judgement call on Tina's part especially if she knew it might be Tim that took them. I personally would have contacted Tim before I would have contacted the law just to make sure he had them and that they were safe.
I also agree with you on your answer to this point however was not meant to be addressed to you , it was directly stated to Rosebud. In addition my animals are registered with the state in which I live. I have learned my lesson on presumption so I cannot presume to know if Michigan has this same law. Even though I am married, I also have an LLC with a business plan written in the case of dissolution. It is sad that many people also do not make such a plan especially when they are in a domestic partnership with no clear legal grounds for this type of situation. I do not mean this as a judgement on anyone, I only mean that in a world where people do not stand by their agreements, everyone should know and protect their rights and interests.


At this moment Saharaz (I am Sarah of Saharaz Dragonz)YOU are the one that seems to be tarnashing your OWN future in breeding with your posts. You are not thinking objectively and you are also not quoting correctly. I have read every post to this thread and I have reread, but yet YOU are still only using MY name and answering someone elses concerns. In the future I would appreciate if you ONLY use my name to answer MY posts and not someone elses posts or concerns. [color="Red"][i]I have been corrected, I now have my head on straight, I promise that I will be cautious not to credit anyone else's to you in the future and I have apologized for the offense,,, several times now.

In regard to the part about deleting the thread, what I said was: "I agree with your statement." and below is a direct quote from AndreaH which was (post #49)
"Greathouse I agree that their personal dispute needs to be resolved outside of this website and out of this thread. I personally do not care what separated them, but the question that I do care about is "WHO is the rightful owner of the dragons?" "WHO do we contact in the future to purchase a dragon from these breeders?" "WHO is responsible for making sure all orders have been taken care of since this seems to be a termination of a business?". As stated in the title of this thread "STOLEN DRAGONS!!(tim and amanda miller)" was posted and started by Tina Noll, so when you say this has nothing to do with business Im very sorry to inform you but it does. Does it have to go into their personal problems...NO, but as already stated by me and a mod. this thread is here to stay. Tina now has accused Tim or Amanda Miller of theft here on this website and could have harmed any potential business for either of them in the future and it needs to be cleared up ASAP." [/color]

I am NOT a mod. on this website, so just to make you aware.... I do NOT have the power to delete a thread. Once again you are making an assumption about me that in FACT is not true. I however AM a member and have been here on this website for 3 years, so I do know the rules that they have put in place. If your are not a MOD then someone other than you posted post # 49 which part of the statement I highlighted in blue above makes it sound as if you are to anyone who does not know who is a mod and who is not on this forum.


Check post #47 and you will see that the moderator AbsoluteApril posted.

And Sarah of Saharazdragonz you have only actually apologized to me directly one time not several and the apology is accepted.

Originally Posted by AndreaH

In regard to the part about deleting the thread, what I said was: "I agree with your statement." and below is a direct quote from AndreaH which was (post #49)
"Greathouse I agree that their personal dispute needs to be resolved outside of this website and out of this thread. I personally do not care what separated them, but the question that I do care about is "WHO is the rightful owner of the dragons?" "WHO do we contact in the future to purchase a dragon from these breeders?" "WHO is responsible for making sure all orders have been taken care of since this seems to be a termination of a business?". As stated in the title of this thread "STOLEN DRAGONS!!(tim and amanda miller)" was posted and started by Tina Noll, so when you say this has nothing to do with business Im very sorry to inform you but it does. Does it have to go into their personal problems...NO, but as already stated by me and a mod. this thread is here to stay. Tina now has accused Tim or Amanda Miller of theft here on this website and could have harmed any potential business for either of them in the future and it needs to be cleared up ASAP." [/color]

I am NOT a mod. on this website, so just to make you aware.... I do NOT have the power to delete a thread. Once again you are making an assumption about me that in FACT is not true. I however AM a member and have been here on this website for 3 years, so I do know the rules that they have put in place. If your are not a MOD then someone other than you posted post # 49 which part of the statement I highlighted in blue above makes it sound as if you are to anyone who does not know who is a mod and who is not on this forum.


Check post #47 and you will see that the moderator AbsoluteApril posted.

And Sarah of Saharazdragonz you have only actually apologized to me directly one time not several and the apology is accepted.

Thank you for accepting my apology. I appreciate your graciousness. I have apologized to anyone who felt insulted by what I had to say and for messing up in my reply, which was posted accidentally before I could correct my mistake. I was never intentionally accusatory or mean spirited and I hope that can be finished with this matter. You have a nice day Andrea

Originally Posted by AndreaH

In all honesty if you go to sell a clutch and you tell the purchaser the parents genetics and also give credit to Midragons on where you purchased the breeder its an honest answer. Midragons did not have horrible dragons by any means at all and that business should get the credit, but Midragons as of now is a terminated business. At the time the dragon was bought by you it was still Tim and Tina Miller and there is no shame in that and most people only put the business they dealt with not personal names of who they talked to.
Example, I just bought a female hypo trans from BloodBank, but I didnt talk to Steven because I actually dealt with Barry even though its actually Steven Barnes who owns BloodBank. I would give credit to BloodBank, but I would thank Barry for his great communication through out the transaction.
Any questions about the dragons that you have bought can either go to Tim or Tina for the fact you bought the dragon when they were still business partners.

Now with that said that is how I believe it went, but I could be wrong. And since this is a very good question you can always ask them both for the information your looking for if a dragon may get sick. All because they are no longer together doesnt mean they wont both help you to the best of their knowledge. That is what I would do if I need there help with one of their dragons.

That's is exactly the way things were except for the dragons have always belonged to my dad (Tim Miller). Tina only dealt with the financial end of Midragons everything else my dad (Tim Miller)dealt with. My dad will always answer any question you have concerning any dragon that he shipped to anyone. Thanks