Triple Moons Exotic

I am not sure what was wrong with the previous listing. I will try again. If it is the anonymous quotes, then I will refrain from posting. As the "Phantom Breeder" is very relevant to the thread, and appears to be a member on Fauna. I would point out I have the member's IP address, and the member is located in Pennsylvania.

Below is the original message:

I really don't want this to escalate beyond what it is already. I just want to make sure my name is cleared.

I will keep my description short, and let the emails do the talking.

I recently sold 2 snakes to a buyer located overseas. The buyer asked that I ship the animals to a friend located in the states. The buyer was very quick to pay, and was very friendly. I was put into contact with Stephanie at Triple Moon Exotics. Stephanie seemed very friendly, but also was about business. I was impressed by her professionalism.

I shipped the snakes to Stephanie, and within a couple of days of arrival she informed me the animals weights were off. Stephanie proactively had the deleted ad pulled back up, and sure enough, the weights were off. The buyer and Stephanie agreed on a rough idea of how much I should refund, and I quickly made that refund, and offered my apologies.

Not long after, both Stephanie and the buyer contacted me regarding the purchase of more animals. I kindly explained I felt uncomfortable engaging in any more transactions after our previous sale. I explained that I have been in a situation where a buyer tried to claim animals arrived dead that I shipped. I explained that I am happy to do a refund, but would rather not take the risk in making a sale to them again, until I felt more comfortable about their operation. Specifically, met her at a show.

So this is where it begins:

Stephanie did not appreciate my email, and felt I was accusing her of being a scammer. I explained, in no way did I intend to offend her. I simply would rather not engage in business.

Several email exchanges commence.

Then I get an email from "Reputable Breeder"

A "24 year" breeding veteran that wished to with hold his contact information, but wanted to tell me that Stephanie was trustworthy.

At this point, I was really perplexed.

I wrote Stephanie, and expressed my disappointment that she had discussed this situation, specifically the sour transaction, despite me resolving it. On top of all that, the fact that she shared my contact information with the individual.

Finally, it really struck a nerve to think this "Phantom Breeder" would not even disclose who they were.

Stephanie's response was very insightful. She claimed to not know who it was, rather who it could be. Which reveals she clearly disclosed the predicament, and my contact info to numerous people.

So in closing I'd like to make the transaction public. The situation was resolved by me refunding her according to her terms.

I would also like to open the forum for anyone who may have heard a variation on the transaction, so we can clear any miscommunication up.

Finally, I hope the "Phantom Breeder" would reveal their identity. It really is small of someone to contact me anonymously regarding something totally irrelevant to them.

Emails are below (I removed information that did not need to be included. I tried to keep formatting legible):

From: triplemoon
To: andrewg
Sent: Sun, April 17, 2011 12:21:50 PM
Subject: Message about: 1.0 Breeding Ghost- Best offer takes him!

*************
NOTE: This message was sent to you via the Kingsnake.com Classifieds. If you feel this message is fraudulent or abusive please forward it to classifieds@pethobbyist.com.
NOTE: DO NOT flag this message as SPAM/JUNK as your ability to receive legitimate messages from Kingsnake.com Classifieds may be compromised
*************

Hello Andrew, do you have other photos of him you could send me? Would you accept $130/shipped for him?

----------------------------------------------
Click on (or cut and paste into you browser's
location window) the URL below to view the ad that
this message is in response to.

xxxxxx

Andrew G wrote:
Thanks for the offer!

In no way meant to be an insult, or taken personally, but as a seller in the industry, I must protect myself just like a buyer. In all the years of transactions I've handled, I have had 2 instances of unsatisfied customers. The first instance was very ugly, and resulted in a lot of slanderous statements being made about me all over the internet. To respond, I posted a thread on the BOI (if you just search my name on the forum, you will find the thread). The result was she could never produce any evidence that there were any issues with the animals.

The second case is the sale to you all. Because I have no way to verify weights (even if you took a picture), there is the slight chance one could use that as a way to get a discount on an animal.

Now, I am confident you all are NOT using that tactic to get discounts, but until I have further evidence to know for sure you all are not wheeling and dealing to get animals for dirt cheap, I am going to have to happily decline from doing any more transactions. I am sure you all are great people, and it's not unlikely we will run into each other at a show. So please don't take this as personal. I just need to protect myself from bad transactions, and until I can know more, I would rather be cautious.

I wish you all the best!

Andrew

Triple Moons Exotic wrote:
Hello Andrew,

If you needed pics of them on a scale for verification, I would have been happy to provide that. In fact, I will still provide that once I get back to my office to ease your mind. They did eat for me Friday, so they will weigh a bit more then what they came in at. I would suggest you invest in a scale, they run about $20.

I am a little appalled that you would think I would do something like that despite my established 8+ year reputation in the reptile industry. Not once have I had negative issue outside like you described, a fraudulent BOI thread many years ago. I realize mine and Charlene's situation is strange, her being stationed in the middle east and making purchases while I'm here in the states, but it is what it is.

Anyway, good luck. I'll have those pictures to you later this evening.

Thanks!
Stef

Scale photos as promised.
----

Andrew G.:

I appreciate the photos. I did not mean to offend you. The reason I didn't even ask for photos was because even still, I've seen BOI threads with conflicting scale images (you can set the zero high or low). It really doesn't PROVE anything.

I do own a scale, and usually make practice of weighing. If you recall, I specifically sold the animals with general weights.

I still am not a fan of how the previous transaction ended, and will sell the ghost to a different buyer. It's nothing personal.

Thanks and sorry.

Andrew


________________________________________
From: Jeana Smith <jeanasmith218@yahoo.com>
To: andrewg
Sent: Tue, April 19, 2011 4:37:11 PM
Subject: bad deal with triple moons designs
Andrew,

I am sending you this email in regards to the transaction you recently had with Triple Moons Designs. While I do not know you, you may or may not know me. I am generating this email from another account so there are no later games being played by any parties in the future.

I am a reputable breeder that has been in this industry since 1987 (24 years), and am close personal friends with many larger breeders including (Peter Kahl, Paul Miles (boa barn), Ian (outback reptiles), Ozzy Boids and the list can go on. Some (who werent at shows were even at my wedding and family events).

Steph is a very close friend with a small collection. She is reputable and trustworthy. Her fauna trader rating is (24), she is a paid member, and has several good guy boi threads. She had been in contact with me the entire way thru her transaction with you, from inquiring on whether or not I knew who you were, to asking my advice on what she should do when the animals came in under the weight they were advertised at, not recieving the het paperwork that was to be sent along with the animals and so on.

At first when she told me that you were willing to work out a refund with her I was glad that you were willing to resolve the issue. Now, in an email, I see you have chosen not to sell her another animal (which is perfectly within your rights), however I think you are doing it based on the wrong reasons.

You sold and shipped her animals that were clearly misrepresented and falsely advertised, while you did refund her in some way, you are now making it sound as if she is the scammer and thief and tried to rip you off. Absolutely not so.

Also while I do respect the fact that you have been polite in your emails to her, and you have every right to protect yourself from future bad business transactions, I think you need to take a look in the mirror and see where the bad transaction started. While you may be an honest business person, your business practices (from this transaction) seem a little shoddy to me to say the least, and is something this industry is in no need of.

The way you have now handled yourself, IF you had anything I was interested in I dont think I could buy from you at this time, and if at anytime I am again asked if I know you, I will say the same as I told Steph, "no", however I will referenece this transaction for them to make their own descision. As you stated in her emails, this is certainly in no way meant to offend you or to be taken personally, merely an observation thru conversation and email correspondence.

Reputable Breeder



--- On Tue, 4/19/11, Andrew Gizinski <andrew.gizinski@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: AndrewG
Subject: Re: bad deal with triple moons designs
To: "Jeana Smith" <jeanasmith218@yahoo.com>
Cc: triplemoon
Date: Tuesday, April 19, 2011, 10:11 PM
Hello Reputable Breeder,

I've cc'd Stephanie on this email in case she is not aware of our correspondence.

I am sorry you see my actions as "Shoddy". My hope is to offer top-notch service to all of my customers. I was quick to address the dissatisfaction Stephanie expressed.

The ad never listed het papers. The only mention of het papers (for the female het) came AFTER the packaging of the animals. Which means it was not a part of the sale. I work very long weeks this time of year and have not had time to pull up the het female paperwork. I plan to do so out of courtesy, not transaction obligation (especially given shipping is a further cost to me).

I've beat the topic of the weights into the ground. See Stephanie and my emails if you wish to understand where the misunderstanding came from.

Regardless, I agreed to pay a very generous refund in order to move past the issue.

Finally, I find it interesting that Stephanie is "Apalled" and you consider me "Shoddy" by me declining to engage in another transaction until further notice. The situation just continues to puzzle me. A sale to a person in Afghanistan, requests I contact Stephanie and ship to her, the animals arrive and the buyer is not satisfied. So after I refund, they both request to engage in another transaction. When I decline, I am contacted again by Stephanie with a rather irritated email. I can't help but wonder why anyone would waste the time to pursue a transaction with a breeder that declined a sale. Then to add insult to injury, I am contacted by a Phantom Breeder attempting to give Stephanie more credibility by claiming to have been breeding for over 20 years, but not willing to show me the respect to contact me with a real name.

Do you see where I am coming from?

I really do not mean this to be offensive. I just need to protect myself as a seller from unfavorable transactions. I am not saying Stephanie and Charlene are an example of one (in fact, they both seem very professional and friendly), but I can't know for sure. And this email only hurt, rather than help.

Stephanie,

I also want to express my disappointment that my contact information was shared with a person unrelated to the transaction. It really makes you APPEAR (I am not accusing you, just explaining what it looks like) desperate to buy more animals from me. If you feel like you needed to clear your name from any slander, I have not spoke A WORD to anyone, nor do I have any desire to maliciously turn anyone away from business with you. I just don't feel comfortable for the time being and maintain my position.

Regards,

Andrew


Hello Andrew,

I'm a little surprised by this email and I have a suspicion of who it is, but being he did not want to provide his name, I'm not going to go there (and I could be wrong). I won't deny I contacted friends about the situation during our email exchanges. I wanted to know if I was being unreasonable in my expectations and needed an opinion on the best way to approach it. I rarely am on the receiving end of a negative purchasing transaction (which I really don't think this was until you implied that I was out to scam you) and I wanted others take on the email exchange, concerned that maybe I was being too sensitive on the matter.

I did acknowledge that mine and [buyer’s name removed] situation is a strange one being she's in[location removed]. But we have been working together for a long time and while she is stationed in [location removed] I have all of her animals. [buyer’s name removed] is very enthusiastic and is excited to get back to the states in July and back to her reptiles. This is why she's making purchases now, in preparation for her return and the expansion of our projects. If you were uncomfortable with the transaction because of that, it is completely understandable and their would have been no hard feelings. She could have simply transferred the money to me to purchase them directly to ease your mind.

I am also far from desperate to purchase your animals. I could purchase from any number of breeders through my local connections, but being that I felt you handled the underweight issue smoothly, I wanted to continue supporting someone I've already purchased from (I am very loyal when someone does right by me). It is your prerogative to deny a sale to anyone, but to imply that I was out to scam you was unfair. I can appreciate your honesty on it, but it was down right flabbergasted that you would think that of me.

I honestly don't want to argue about this. I'm sure this will spread like wildfire through the local reptile community as is. The whole situation is silly and stupid. Am I annoyed that you wouldn't make a sale to me? No, not at all. Am I annoyed that you think I could potentially be running a scam? Yes, absolutely.

Anyway...Again, good luck with the season...

Stef

To: triple moon
From: AndrewG

The issue is not that you talked about it. The issue is that he has my email, which is NOT listed on Fauna. So I am trying to understand how he was given that information. I also am bothered that not only did this person have my email, but you don't know who it is, thus NUMEROUS parties have my email.

This is a problem.

I want to explain, I never implied you were out to scam me. I just did not like how our transaction ended, and said I cannot be sure. I was very polite and never made any accusations. Meanwhile you've distributed my email, and details about our transaction to parties that did not need to be involved. Again, this is very disturbing.

From Jeana Smith:

Andrew,

I do agree with you when you say that you were quick to address and resolve the issue at hand with Steph. I think it was the correct thing to do in some fashion or another.

And I dont think the weight thing is now the issue since you did address and resolve that issue in a timely fashion. That transaction is now complete.

I think the issue now appears that you somehow feel that she is a scammer and you decline to sell to her because she had an issue with product that you misrepresented to begin with. Let me give you a totaly unrelated example that just happened to me recently:

I wentt to Applebees, ordered my steak well done. When it was brought to my table it was barely medium rare. I asked them to return it, as it was not what I ordered, and they graciously did, and made good on it by bringing me a new steak. NOW, imagine what a surprise it will be when I go back next week and they tell me they cant serve me, because I returned a steak that I paid for and that they messed up in the first place. DOES THIS MAKE ME A SCAMMER? I THINK NOT. So, since they mucked up, and I decide to back, DOES THAT MAKE ME DESPERATE? ONCE AGAIN, I THINK NOT.

What it does mean is I ordered something and didnt get it, but a satisfactory resolution was made to me. So at that time of the transaction I was happy and secure enough to try it again.

If it was a repeated thing that happened, I agree that I would be in your shoes and feeling the same way, but only after just one transaction, I would try again, but that is just me.

As far as my reputation, I have nothing to prove. I have been a staple in this industry for 24 years and am quite happy with my accomplishments and breeding success, with much more to come in the future. If I happen to see you at a show I will stop by and introduce myself.

I was merely just trying to let you know that Steph was credible and trustworthy. You can use that info however you see fit. Check her out for yourself on the BOI and judge from that before you discredit her.

Best of luck with future transactions

THE PHANTOM BREEDER

From: AndrewG
To: Jeana Smith

It is interesting you and Stephanie use the same term "scammer". Find ONE email I accused her of "scamming" me. I just said, I couldn't be sure, and felt uneasy about the situation. I really am perplexed you wasted the time to email me. WHO CARES WHAT I THINK? I've not accused her, insulted her, slandered her, talked about her, or anything.

I am not the one that gave her email out to people. Apparently she didn't show me the same respect.

Andrew

My response to a previous reply:

@ mikey:

"Thru reading the emails, I do not see where the buyer was called a "scammer" by the OP, however if I was the buyer, I do think that I would feel some sort of way, by the reasoning of your decline to sell another animal to me. Maybe not a scammer, but maybe as if I was being punished, or I was in the wrong for calling you out on animals that you clearly falsely advertised to begin with."

I think my emails made it clear, redundantly clear, that it was not a personal attack, an accusation, or anything of the sort. I was just being cautious. I felt uncomfortable about the situation, and do not have any more of an obligation to sell an animal, than she has to buy from me.

"As far as the buyer discussing her transaction with others, I do not see a problem with this. I talk to my friends and other breeders all the time about possible transactions I am looking to make. I ask for their advice on several things pertaining to the sale. You had ads on Kingsnake and on fauna, so your info was public and anyone including the so called reputable breeder could have contacted you at anytime via those outlets and gotten your email. Be glad that they had the respect to contact you privately vs. here on the BOI in public."


If you notice, sites like Kingsnake and Fauna make it so if a person wants to contact another person via email, the "outsider" (or buyer in this case) must reveal their email, while the "member's" (or me in this case) contact info is kept private until they reply. So my email address had to be shared with the Phantom Breeder outside of these outlets.

I have no issues with discussing transactions. The issue here is that my email was specifically shared with multiple people (as evident by my original post), and the context of the sale explained. And I'd rather not open this can of worms, but it was MISrepresented if you carefully read through the emails.

Finally, I would disagree with you closing statement. I have no idea who she shared the info with, or how she represented it! I would MUCH rather issues be handled on the BOI (as evident by me posting on here) than by people who wish to withhold their identity.

Wow, respect? Man... That email is FAR from respect.

"To address this reputable breeder: It looks to me like this person was just trying to help out a friend and verify her credibility. (I hope I have friends that will do that for me if I am ever in a situation). It looks as if they credited you for solving the issue at hand in a rapid response, and I dont really see where they bad mouthed you in anyway. So, I really dont think the name of this reputable breedre is a big deal or concern. You can credit or discredit their info however you choose."

To Mikes friends: Anonymous emails that name drop (even if the name dropping is totally accurate) do not help with someone credibility.

"So in conclusion, I think I would feel the same way as the buyer in this instance. You certainly do have a right to do business in any way you choose, and sell to whom ever you want. You didnt seem harsh in any of your responses or emails, but actually, I think I would refrain from purchasing from you just out of concern that if I had a problem in anyway, what would be the results or outcome of our transaction? Even if you did make good on it, are you going to stop selling to me? Are you going to stop selling to everyone that has an issue, because of their potential ill intentions?"

Before reading my response, reread that paragraph. What was the response of the transaction? I fixed it to satisfaction.

Out of concern of a problem? So a reason not to buy from someone is if they would refrain from selling to you again? Interesting criteria.

I choose not to sell for the same reason one would choose not to buy. If the transaction makes them uncomfortable. I exercised by "right to do business in any way [i] choose" as you stated.

Andrew had told me via PM he wasn't going to repost this afternoon, but evidently he felt it necessary to start another thread under my name.

Here is my portion of a response to the previous thread that was locked and will be deleted because it didn't follow BOI protocol. Charlene will be on sometime tomorrow to post her email correspondence with him. I have asked Harold to pull the original for sale ad that Charlene purchased the snakes in question from.

I'm surprised to see this here as I myself thought it was all a done deal a few days ago, here are the emails directly about the transaction prior to the ones he posted when I inquired on another animal (my responses are in bold). To forewarn, my email system is setup a little strange, only the date/time details are on my responses, not his...Never figured out how to fix it. It should be noted that he was contacted immediately upon receipt of the underweight issue.

Andrew Gizinski wrote:
I have been in contact with you partner Charlene. She recently purchased a butter het ghost male, and a het ghost female ball python from me.

I wanted to know an OK time to ship to you. You will need to be present to sign for the packages.

Thanks!

Andrew

From: Triple Moons Design
To: Andrew Gizinski
Sent: Mon, April 11, 2011 9:57:04 AM
Subject: Re: Butter het ghost

Yes, anytime that is convenient for you this week is fine. The weather will be relatively nice the beginning of this week.

Andrew wrote:

I will keep you posted. Will try to ship today.

Andrew

From: Triple Moons Design
To: Andrew Gizinski
Sent: Mon, April 11, 2011 10:34:17 AM
Subject: Re: Butter het ghost

Did you produce both of these animals?

Andrew Gizinski wrote:
I did not actually. I just recently purchased a lot of ball pythons, and needed to sell off some.

From: Triple Moons Design
To: Andrew Gizinski
Sent: Mon, April 11, 2011 11:17:27 AM
Subject: Re: Butter het ghost

Could you tell me who did produce them? ...and if you had anything else available?

Andrew Gizinski wrote:
I am away from the house now. I think I forgot to pack the paperwork for the het female. So if I did forget, I will check. The butter doesnt have any paperwork. He was sold to me by a guy name Matthew Lewis (he's on Fauna). I could ask him if he produced it, or if he knows who did.

I have a cinny het albino male I am asking $400 or best offer, produced by Special K, with paperwork. Ghost male, breeding size, $100. 1.3 double het pied albinos (1.2 with paperwork) asking $4500 shipped, but will let them go for as low as $3500 shipped (this is a potentially very high dollar project). I can do a payment plan for 6 weeks on those guys. I also have a lemon pastel male I am asking $100.

From: Triple Moons Design
To: Andrew Gizinski
Sent: Mon, April 11, 2011 4:37:43 PM
Subject: Re: Butter het ghost

Thanks for the response. I'll contact Matthew directly for additional information on the Mojave. If you did forget the paperwork, please just toss it in an envelope when you have the time. I'll send your list of additional availability to Char for review. She might be interested in the Cinny het Albino, she expressed interest today picking up another Cinny male unrelated to what we currently have.

I'm guessing you already shipped them out? If so, please forward the tracking number when you get the chance. I don't foresee any issues since we're so close, but you never know.

Andrew Gizinski wrote:
Here is the tracking info:

796974368290

Keep me posted on the little het albino. I have a buyer interested, but am happy to send him up your way (cute little cinnamon).

Thanks!

From: Triple Moons Design
To: Andrew Gizinski
Cc: Charlene Dourty
Sent: Tue, April 12, 2011 10:18:09 AM
Subject: Re: Butter het ghost

Hello Andrew,

The snakes arrived safely today. I did however want to express my concern with the adult female. She is only 988g. When told she has been locked with a male, I assume safe breeding practices are being followed and she would have been a minimum of 1500g prior to breeding. While Charlene is at fault for not getting a specific weight on the female and mine for not following up, I do not think she was properly represented. This snake should never have been locked with a male and she will require another year under her belt before she is at an appropriate breeding weight. We did not expect to receive a small female not of breeding weight.

The Butter is a beautiful animal with a unique pattern. Couldn't be happier with him.

Andrew Gizinski wrote:
To be honest, I never weighed her. I was told she was bordering 1200 g, which in my opinion is a safe weight to breed at. You're right, 988g is small.

Let me know if I can make the situation better.

At this point I let Charlene handle it as they were her animals and it was her decision on what to do. After a partial refund was made, I followed up with an email thanking Andrew for his timely attention to the matter...and then I put up a positive BOI post about the transaction.

[b]Triple Moons Design wrote:
Thank you for handling this, Andrew. I think Char might have misunderstood me about the het paperwork. I did clarify to her this morning that the female has paperwork, not the male, and that you offered to stick them in the mail when you had the time. I also let her know that you provided the name of who you got them from should their be any problems or questions. I did have Harold pull the ad she purchased the pair off of and the ad did in fact say 4XX for the Butter, a simple typographical error I think.

Good luck this season. I look forward to seeing what you produce this year being you're relatively close.[b]

And then it picks up when I expressed interest in another animal he had and we go from there...

So in the original transaction...The advertisement stated a 4XXg Butter het Hypo, the snake came in at 268 grams (not a huge complaint on my part, he's for next year anyway). The advertisement also listed with it throwing in a breeding adult female het Hypo that has been actively locking with a Hypo male. What I received was a 988g adult female that should not have been paired with anything at the weight she was. My concern is if she is in the early stages of being gravid, I might have a female here with medical problems from being bred too soon and worst case scenario, die as a result.

Frankly, that part of the transaction as far as I'm concerned was complete. He handled it efficiently and I had no complaints about my interactions with him. I wouldn't have posted a positive BOI post if I hadn't.

As far as the current issue, I believe how I feel about it is eloquently put in my emails to him and I really don't have anything else to say about it.

In regards to "giving his email out", I did not maliciously send his email address to anyone in an intent to damage him or otherwise harass him. That's stupid and petty. The email correspondence was forwarded to additional parties to receive input and advice, which is within my right. Andrew's email is hardly private. It's a gmail account with his name. It is easily recovered via the email systems on both Fauna and Kingsnake. At this point I think it's extremely childish that it's still being harped upon. What exactly is so important that you feel the need to hide your email?

One couple was aware of the transaction between us three when I sought out additional insight on the transaction. Now the dirty laundry that he was concerned with is permanently, publicly posted on the BOI. For someone who was concerned with defending himself, I never put this information out into the general public, it seems strange to me to post this thread when I was not in the wrong in the situation.

I did have a conversation with "the Phantom Breeder" about the email that was sent to him and I don't think that it will happen again. If that party chooses to reveal himself, that's his choice and is between Andrew and him.

PM correspondence with Andrew from today:

Me: I just wanted to pop on here and ask if you planned opening up another BOI thread following appropriate BOI format? Charlene was just about to post your email correspondence with her right when Harold locked it. It's entirely up to you if you want to co

Andrew: Thanks for the message. I may or may not. I did not know I failed to follow proper formatting. I will need to look and see what I did wrong first.

Me: I believe it's because the thread was technically about an anonymous party, which isn't permitted on the BOI. No name, no BOI post. The only solution I see you having is if you put the thread up about me and/or Char.
Just please notify me if you do. Thanks!

Andrew: Ah, understood. It's not worth it. It is not about you or Char. Even though no one walked away totally happy, we are not any worse off than before. I'll just let him delete it.

Me: Andrew, despite what you may think, Char and I were completely satisfied with the transaction despite the hick-up. I wouldn't have posted a positive post in your BOI thread if I wasn't. I also wouldn't have approached you to purchase another snake if I wasn't. Am I disappointed with your opinion of me and the situation? Sure. But their isn't much I can do about it at this point. I do sincerely wish you the best of luck this season.

Andrew: It is evident you did not have any issues. And I did not consider you a scammer (nor do I hold that opinion). I just felt uncomfortable enough to not engage in any more business. Plain and simple. The only residual issue is that the transaction was discussed in enough detail that my contact information was shared (contact info that is NOT publicly available). What's done is done. And I wish you the best as well. No hard feelings.

Thats very decietful for you to tell her that you weren't going to post another thread and then do it anyway. Initially I felt that everyone is in the wrong and this was all a bunch of stupid drama but Andrew your only making yourself look bad in my opinion because you keep dragging this on and on. From what I read of the previous post your snakes weren't just slightly off they were a lot off and there was a female het ghost around a thousand grams that was bred which is very irrisponsible on someones part either yours Andrew or the person you bought it off of. What are you going to do to compensate Stephanie and Charlene if that snake does get egg bound and dies? I would be very irritated by an annonymous email due to the fact that Stephanie gave out your personal information but your not an angel in this Andrew. Yes you tried to do the right thing through compensation for the weight differences but what happens when the snake dies because of poor decisions to breed at such a small size. Best case scenario is the snake in question won't breed for another year because you let it get locked up with a male too soon.

I have to agree with Dustin's Post... I see a lot of misrepresentation.. not just a little about the weight of the snakes... To breed at under 1000 grams is just a bad idea no matter what and to not have a scale present to take weights of the snakes isn't a good idea!

I am supposed to be doing the same type of deal with Charlene and Stephanie but it has fallen through as of right now. I wouldn't hesitate to go through with the deal though because of Stephanie's reputation and because she didn't run and hide like some people would in a situation like this.

I can understand your concern over her sharing your contact info with someone but it's not such a big deal. The anonymous E-mail though just sounds fishy.. they should come forth and identify themselves. I happen to share my experiences with many people and if she was concerned for the snakes health.. I can understand why she would go to a breeder with so many years of experience under his belt.

This is just a situation that should have stayed private in my opinion... Just my .02

Originally Posted by dustinNMpythons

Thats very decietful for you to tell her that you weren't going to post another thread and then do it anyway. Initially I felt that everyone is in the wrong and this was all a bunch of stupid drama but Andrew your only making yourself look bad in my opinion because you keep dragging this on and on. From what I read of the previous post your snakes weren't just slightly off they were a lot off and there was a female het ghost around a thousand grams that was bred which is very irrisponsible on someones part either yours Andrew or the person you bought it off of. What are you going to do to compensate Stephanie and Charlene if that snake does get egg bound and dies? I would be very irritated by an annonymous email due to the fact that Stephanie gave out your personal information but your not an angel in this Andrew. Yes you tried to do the right thing through compensation for the weight differences but what happens when the snake dies because of poor decisions to breed at such a small size. Best case scenario is the snake in question won't breed for another year because you let it get locked up with a male too soon.

I am not sure where you see drama. This is an info thread. I want to make people aware of the details of the transaction. Both my faults, as well as others. No one is heated, or angry.

Compensation was delivered. If they felt condition compensation was appropriate, then they had the opportunity to request that.

I will repeat, this thread is NOT about the weights. It has been resolved.

Just to clarify:

Originally Posted by TripleMoonsExotic

Andrew had told me via PM he wasn't going to repost this afternoon, but evidently he felt it necessary to start another thread under my name.

And the reason I changed my mind was because I was contacted by another user that requested I repost it.

I can see where the OP has copied my post from the last thread so no need for me to go over any of that. I still stand by my guns on what I said.

Somewhere along the line you misrepresented animals and or their weights, and falsely advertised them for sale.

You did make good on the transaction. Smart business move.

And if I were in her shoes, I would still feel some type of way.

As far as the breeder. Who really cares? Their input was not used in any part of the transaction, and I believe was stated that was only a friend giving info lending to her credibility. It also appears in their second sentence that they stated it was presented that way so no future games would be played by any future parties. And gee golly whiz, look where it ended up.

As far as your email be handed out. ONce again, who really cares? Is this so called phantom breeder or anyone else emailing you at this time on that email address about this situation? If you dont want your info in public, then dont advertise in public forums where the public people are gonna get it anyway by responding to your ads. And please dont use the excuse that you didnt hand it out, and she did. Oh my! What on earth would you ever do if someone wanted to give you as a reference? How would they contact you?

And I as well agree with Dustin, that it was decietful to post after you had told her that you wouldnt. Oh, does that say alot about your character.

Lets face it. You screwed up, you got caught. you paid up. Now you took someone that was willing to give you another shot and totaly blew them off, (loss of customer). There is a smart business move.

Sounds to me that you are just tiffed that you got busted, and that you dont know who this supposed phantom breeder is. Suck it up and move on.

P.S. After all this that I have read, and now you posting after you said you wouldnt. I would definitely refrain from purchasing from you. Another customer lost.

Mike

Really you opened this thread again? You aren't exactly clearing your name. Offering a refund for misrepresenting the weights of the snakes put you in a decent light. Your own actions following all that have ruined your name.

I'm pasting in my original post with updates:

From your email:
Originally Posted by VAsnakeman12:
Now, I am confident you all are NOT using that tactic to get discounts, but until I have further evidence to know for sure you all are not wheeling and dealing to get animals for dirt cheap. . .


While it doesn't say scammer, you do imply that she might be trying to rip you off. And how can you simultaneously be confident they are not trying to rip you off and need more evidence as proof they aren't?

I'd be pretty appalled by your language too if I thought I you and I were on good terms after having successfully navigated a troublesome sale. She was merely expressing her feelings to you, and in only one sentence of the whole email. Did you expect no response from her?

I still don't think it's fair that Phantom Breeder has contacted you anonymously. If he or she is willing to come and introduce themselves at a show, he or she should sign the email with a real name.

It is perfectly within your rights to refuse to sell to them, but I don't think they deserved it.

And I'm just curious, why is it so unsettling to you that your email address is known? Emails are fairly public by nature and can be easily found out. I have consulted with more knowledgeable people many times regarding various transactions and I do the same thing: forward emails and copy/paste PMs so the contact info inadvertently gets sent along too. I think it's probably pretty common because one of the benefits of being in a community is the ability to have these consultations.

Here we go again.