Illinois state law issues

I left Illinois due to the laws and regs. I moved to Texas in 85 where I have to deal with rednecks Rattlesnake Round-ups. I still think I got the better end of the deal! I've known Lee Watson since I was 15 years old and he has always been in the know of the politics involved with anmals keeping. Good guy to hav eon your side. Glad to hear this crazy notion got stopped quickly.

But imagine if every time a restaurant, sold a steak dinner, the health code inspector had to be called in, to inspect that steak. The inspectors would get rich, that is until all the restaurants went out of business.

Thats gotta be the best way I have heard it put so far. I totally agree that Vets could corner the market under this. How about another senerio you take your 50 dragons to the vet he fails everyone for whatever reason next at the show you find him with a table full of dragons.


Wtorres, I dont know if you could say I am a believer in animal right but I am a firm beliver in the humane treatment of animals. Give them sanitary conditons(which includes proper size), a full water bowl and make sure they are properly feed. However do I beileive it is my right to impose my will on others, NO. The reality of the entire animal world is there are people who proper care of their animals and there are not. The ones who do always have and always will and this law will not change that. The ones who dont never have and never will and this law will not change that either. I spoke to a frined of mine tonight about all this and you know what he said to me, he kind of threw me off

He says "Jason you know crack is illegal in the state of PA"(hes a PA resident)
me " duh"
He says "I could buy crack any day of the week, you know how easy it is to get even though the gov tells us its illegal"
me "ya well you live right outside Pittsburg of course theres alot in the big cities"
He says "Jason I dont even smoke crack your missing my point"
He point was a crack dealer is a crack dealer and animal abuser is an animal abuser and no amount of new laws is going to change either one. The point I am getting at is imposing your will for animal rights isnt going to effect the people your after it will only hurt people such as myself who live by the law.

Maybe not vet visits, but would you agree with fecals?

No I dont agree with that reason being aside from a few select animals I am moving now to reduce my collection, I dont sell large animals, I only sell offspring. If someone needs to do regular fecals on offspring then something is really wrong. I see no reason anyone should need a fecal in a baby snake, a baby snake is a pure as its going to get. My suggestion is this, if your atempting to buy an animal from someone and for some reason you think its needs a fecal, look else where. If your atempting to buy from someone and think there animals need fecals that tells me you dont trust the seller something must have happened that sent up red flags. When I am in a deal and the red flags fly I walk that simple. Back in the day I got screwed a few times from people I should have probally asked for fecals from but they were just slim balls and I am sure they are still slim balls today. Dirt bags who dont properly take care of their animals are not going to change.

I think legislation like this is taking us in that direction.

Stuff like this law here is simple a step in the right direction for the humaniacs and 10 steps the wrong direction for everyone like myself who dont need laws to tell me what the right thing to do is. IM going to give you an example of what the right thing to do is and how I take care of my buisness. I breed and sell rodents for a living ok. Theres a few minor laws pertaining to this I dont even know what they are because I really dont care. Reason being my rodents are kept on aspen bedding(lab grade. not the cheap **** full of bugs that you can buy) cages are cleaned every 7 days. All cages are sterizeled prior to being reused, they are bleached and throughly rinsed, you could eat out of their cages and I am not kidding you. I use all auto watering systems, filtered water(I use 5 gallon buckets I dont like main lines because sometimes they will stick crap in the nozels and trigger them, 5 gallons is alot less the 5hrs of non stop water if they trigger it after hours), nozels are bleached every 30 days as are feeding trofs. They have ample room, are never over crowded and are fed lab grade food(Harlan 2018). Floors are swept every other day, everyday if need be and mopped once a week. Any that are frozen are humanly put to sleep with CO2. Also I run dehumidifiers in the rooms at all times, all those little bodies put off alot of humidity which provides a nice place for bacteria and mold. They also have a continues air exchange, compared to most I go a little overboard but atleast they always have fresh air. My rodents are treated like kings, not because some damn law says I have to, simply because if I treat them with the best they will remain healthy and Ill get the best possible production from them and they will return the favor to me. I do not do this because some stupid law tells me I have to. I do it because just like all the other people who take care of there animals(the ones who truely get hurt by the laws) I want the best, its that simple. So please dont imply some law is good for people like me. The worst possible thing that could happen to me is some offical with a cold come wondering around through my rooms and get my animals sick.

That could be as simple as hiding the food in a crevice on driftwood and letting the animal find it for a reward.

Could a, should a, would a. It doesnt say anything like that in this proposed law, its says I have to have toys and bells and all that crazy **** to provide a "stimulating and enriching environment" for my snakes

I am surprised to see genetic tables and programs that many breeders use to predict this color and that trait, and they'd mind adding a line defining where the animal came from? Not trying to be disrespectful at all, and in fact I appreciate you gentlemen letting me disagree in civility, but I just don't see the reason for the annoyance

My annoyance with this is having to lie. In a perfect world we all would keep perfect records and everyone would be able to trace every single animal back to who produced it. This isnt a perfect world. Granted I see nothing wrong with record keeping and being able to provide a receipt as to where you got the animal in question, ok, but when they come to do the yearly inspection and the law says you have to have records back to its birth. You had the animal in question shipped in from MD or you visited the Indy show and bought it there. Now those people are not required to have records back to the birth and most likely will not have them, what are you going to do? are you going to look the inspecting officer in the eye and lie and say "well the person I bought it from produced it" or are you going to tell him " I guess I am breaking the law, the seller bought it from someone but wasnt required to keep records and couldnt tell me who that person was" thats what is wrong with that

But you know how often you buy an animal from someone that did not even bother keeping it in clean conditions and you're left with the bills to treat parasites, mites, and gawd knows what else, only because you aren't the type of person that will wait until it is ready to be tossed out into the trash and argue for a refund.

Well in the last year maybe two out of several hundred. I dont deal with JP pets or similar types so I dont run into that problem often. I inspect animals ask a bunch of what may seem to be stupid questions to try and get a feel for the person I am buying from and if I dont like what I am hearing or seeing I walk away. 90% of any reptiles I sell(which isnt much anymore) come from local breeders I am friends with. The way you keep talking I am getting the impression your buying alot of animals from people you dont trust, why would you put yourself in that position? Id rather pay more from someone I trust then save the money because I know I wont have a headache afterwards.

Hate to pay for the coldheartedness of irresponsible people that force a measure like this to protect animals and residents.

Thats not the case there isnt some major problem here in IL their trying to stop. What it comes down to is two humaniacs conviced some gualible offical there was a problem. There is no more a problem here then anywhere else and just like crack cocaine that problem isnt going to go away because of a new law.

Dont take anything ive said as though I am attacking you im not. Im just trying to show you new laws will not change anything. They only make it worse for people like myself.

[quote]Nothing to conferm this yet, but I just got word from Lee Watson of Lee Watson's Reptile Show in the Chicago area.
He tells me that the bill has been withdrawn.

He goes on to say, "We have already handled this".

Don't know what they did but I am very thankful.QUOTE]

Thats who I found out about this from, he told me that on friday although it hasnt offically been confirmed hes going to check tomorrow. I know he and his group were involved, PIJAC was, AKC was, Il farmers union and one or two other groups. Theres a couple of metting with the officals tomorrow or the next day then well get the offical. I talked to Lee about it and we wanted to wait to make sure they were not just trying to get us off their back to run it through anyway.

I left Illinois due to the laws and regs. I moved to Texas in 85 where I have to deal with rednecks Rattlesnake Round-ups. I still think I got the better end of the deal! I've known Lee Watson since I was 15 years old and he has always been in the know of the politics involved with anmals keeping. Good guy to hav eon your side. Glad to hear this crazy notion got stopped quickly.

I dont blame ya I have often thought about moving across the river to MO. But ya I agree I was talking to Brian Potter and he said the same thing about Lee, wihtout Lee we would have never stopped that one last year or probally this one. What we all really need to do is start forming colitions with the other animal groups thats were our power lies. The humaniacs may have more money and be more organized then reptile people but when you put all pet owners togther there is a hell of alot more of us then there is of them.

"we can all agree that nobody, not even the group here, can clearly interpret the bill. That's why some see it as ok and other's don't."

Sounds like the majority of bills passed these days.

I just spoke to Coleen who is Elaines sec, this bill is still on the schedule to be heard on wensday. Untill this bill is removed we must continue to flood them with phone calls and letters. Coleen said that they have no plans on moving it foward but as long as it is on the schedule it can be moved foward.

Representative Elaine Nekritz (D)
http://www.ilga.gov/house/rep.asp?MemberID=1033
Springfield Office:
258-W Stratton Office Building
Springfield, IL 62706
(217) 558-1004
(217) 557-7204 FAX

District Office:
24 S. Des Plaines River Road
Suite 200
Des Plaines, IL 60016
(847) 257-0450
(847) 257-0452 FAX
Cook County


Representative Paul D. Froehlich (R)
http://www.ilga.gov/house/rep.asp?MemberID=1068
Springfield Office:
232-N Stratton Building
Springfield, IL 62706
(217) 782-3725
(217) 782-1336 FAX

District Office:
15 W. Weathersfield Way
Schaumburg, IL 60193
(847) 985-9210
(847) 891-8772 FAX
Cook County

Full text can be veiwed here
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ful...cSess=&Session=

on the eve of this proposed bill? This thread sort of dropped out of sight.

Since we are getting confilicting news here, I can't help but wonder if the writer of this bill is trying to sneak it in.

Troy Dozier

Here is a response I received from my State Rep. Patricia Reid Lindner:

Thank you for your e-mail. HB707 was not heard this week in the Agricultural Committee. It is most unlikely that it will pass out of this committee, but if it does, I will carefully consider the issues that you raised and most likely vote against it.

Best information I have at this time.

Well, thats kinda odd... my post from last night asking if anyone had some news as to whether it passed or not disappeared! HMMM..... I think someone from PETA was involved!

I am glad to read that email, hopefully this is a similar view amongst those also in the Ag commitee.

Last year we stopped the blanket ban on exotics this year HB0707 that would have shut down the state lines etc.

I spoke to Elaine the rep who sponsored this bill this morning, boy is she a piece of work LOL. We spoke for probably 20 minutes and it never really went anywhere. I wanted to know why she would support something like this and she tried as hard she could to run me in circles. Her response was

" As a rep my job is to voice the views of my constituents, sometimes the ideas are good ones and sometimes their bad. This one wasn't popular so we decided not to move on it."

I asked why would you support something like this in the first place. I didn't but I was thinking of asking her if I brought something to her to legalize cocaine use if she would shove it through under that same attitude.

"Well were not moving forward so you views are being heard"

Now of course neither of those response answered my original question. I explained to her some of the things that would have happened had this law passed and asked her if she was either blind to those things or if she was not fully aware of what this law meant and again Why would you support something like this? She ran me in circles for a little while longer. I gave up on that since she refused to give me a direct answer and asked her if she supported the animal rights movement explained to her I was asking such a direct question because it was brought to my attention that she graduated from the university of MI, a university which happens to be very involved in the animal rights movement.

At first she said
I can tell you for a fact I have not ever been involved with the rights movement going on at the university of MI.

I explained to her that once again she had avoided my question we she got a little frustrated and said

"Well anyone who says they don't support human rights is a liar"

With that for me enough said, I politely thanked her for her time and huge up.

Anyway according to her she says "I give you my word this bill will not move forward" We will see what her word is worth. This bill is being referred back to the rules committee and after it sits there for a time it will be pronounced dead and removed.

I want to thank everyone who took the time to write or call in and voice your opposition to the bill. Both, Elaine and her secretary told me they had received a huge volume of phone calls and emails. Also PIJAC, the AKC, IL Farmers Union there was a bird and cat group as well but I don't know who they were and of course Lee Watson and his group who has been so instrumental many of these laws. So you guys from IL don't forget to thank those guys when you see them.

On a side note it may note be a bad idea to either call or send an email thanking Representative Paul D. Froehlich. He did co sponsor this bill without fully understanding it however once he was made fully aware of what this bill meant he gave his word to the IL Farmers Union that he would remove his sponsorship and he followed through with his word. Sending him a polite email or phone call might prove to be helpful should similar laws be proposed in the future.



Representative Paul D. Froehlich (R)
statereppaul@sbcglobal.net
http://www.ilga.gov/house/rep.asp?MemberID=1068
Springfield Office:
232-N Stratton Building
Springfield, IL 62706
(217) 782-3725
(217) 782-1336 FAX

District Office:
15 W. Weathersfield Way
Schaumburg, IL 60193
(847) 985-9210
(847) 891-8772 FAX
Cook County

Full text can be veiwed here
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ful...cSess=&Session=

of a politician to not answer a question. If she had answered your questions, she would have "taken a position". Forget standing up for what is right, she just didn't want to box herself in a corner by verbalizing where she stood. If she had told you that she didn't fully understand the Bill, she would have made herself appear stupid, carnal sin in politics. For all she knows, you work for the competion (other party) and could have been taping the conversation.

Glad you got the Bill stopped!

Mike