Tim McLoughlin of New York

I hate to have to post this, but it appears he will not answer his phone calls.

I attended the Hamburg, PA reptile show on February 26, 2011. A friend of mine had asked me to look for a mangrove snake for him. I saw that Tim McLoughlin had 2 melanistic mangroves for sale. I had inquired about their history and was told that they had been in captivity for 8 or 9 months, and had been treated with fenbendazole and Flagyl. Later that day, I came back and made a deal to purchase both. Tim did give me them at his cost, because he said he just didn't want to keep taking them around to show after show. He also pulled a banded female from behind his table that he said was showing signs of RI that morning. He gave her to me for free. I was not terribly concerned, as I have experience in dealing with RIs, and was expecting that it was just the stress of being taken to the show in winter.

When I got them home, each snake was given a soak and checked for mites. Both black mangroves were alert and active, but the banded was a bit weak. I began treatment with amikacin and extra heat/humidity. The larger of the two black ones was passed on to my friend after I checked his setup to make sure it was adequate. The banded female passed away on Thursday, March 3. I called Tim to let him know, but was not expecting anything since she'd been free.

However, my remaining black mangrove will not eat, neither live nor f/t. My friend said that there was a large lump in the mangrove he had near the vent, that did not go down after a week. I called Tim again to let him know about that and asked that he call me back to discuss it. That mangrove died Monday, March 7. I again called Tim and told him that another of his mangroves had died, and that I was less than happy and wanted him to call me back. I have not heard back.

Tim had said at the show that he guaranteed their health and if I had any problems to call him. I am furious, as I believe that these animals were misrepresented. It is impossible to give a venomous snake a full examination at the show, as their tubs are sealed with red tape and they are not to be removed on the premises.

The only contact information I got from Tim was his phone number. I do not know his email to try that. Perhaps he will read this thread and get in touch with me, but I"m not holding my breath. It would appear that I"m out the money for the snakes and had to watch two beautiful animals die.


(Sorry, but all conversation took place at the Hamburg show and I don't have anything in writing)

I would think any health guarantee is moot being that you voluntarily took in a snake with admitted RI. Why in the world would anyone with an existing collection invite a diseased animal into it, free or not.

It was quarantined in a separate room and floor of my house.

I also didn't want to see her suffer and I thought that I could fix her up. She was also in shed so I wasn't even sure it was RI. But you're right- it wasn't the smartest thing to do. I'm too soft and try to save everything. I did however, exercise utmost quarantine. They were on the 3rd floor of my house while my main collection is in a finished basement. I only dealt with them after I was finished in my main room for the day, and changed my clothes and used rubber gloves to do anything with the mangroves. I supposed that in hindsight I should have been instantly suspicious when he offered her to me, but I figured it was most likely due to the shed and the stress of the show.

He possesses sick animals and knowingly brings them to shows? Not the smartest or reputable person. Imagine whats going on at his facility. What would make you think any transaction would work out well?

He told me she had seemed fine when he left that morning, but you're right...I was being naive.

The last couple of times after leaving the Hamburg show I felt like burning the clothes I was wearing.

I will have to be more cautious in the future, but I just didn't want anyone else to run into trouble with this guy. I couldn't find anything about him on here either way- maybe he's not even a member. Does anyone know of him? I can admit it was foolish of me. I would not have bought any of them had my friend not been begging me to find him one, and I figured that they'd be fine since the seller told me he treated them. I did have my vet test for parasites and they came back clean, but God knows what else they had then. I bleached the cage she was in and put it outside and changed my clothes immediately after. This episode for me highlights the importance of sticking with a few known vendors and being cautious about anything you can't examine fully.

Which brings me to a question. I don't routinely keep anything more venomous than hognoses...for the keepers who work with a lot of hots, how do you check the animal's health? You can't really pull at the chin flaps to check for mites can you? I don't plan to ever keep any other hots besides the remaining mangrove (if it lives), but I was just curious.

With any new arrivals, hot or not, and especially imports, just assume they have bugs and treat them as such. No need to handle to check for mites. The animal should be placed in a minimal furnished enclosure treated with PAM. If it has mites, you will see the dead ones on the floor of the enclosure within a day.

I treat every new arrival with Nix, regardless of what I do or do not find. I've never used PAM, but have had excellent results with Nix. I was just curious about how hot keepers handled pre-purchase checks.