HHMoore Finicky eater insight!

remember what I said

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

about getting a feel for who is giving you advice?
I thought I remembered Jen H breaking onto the scene not too long ago with some typical new keeper questions. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/for...ead.php?t=81194
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/for...ead.php?t=81794
I showed you those simply as a means of offering encouragement - Jen is one of the people you look up to, whose experience and advice you trust...but just one short year ago, she was asking some of the same questions you are now. And experiencing some of the same problems.

I am more than willing to help you through this problem, Kristin, but since you asked if I would be 'your one person' - that is how I want it to be (at least for this issue). I will also ask that you not post our PMs immediately, for no other reason than that I don't want to stimulate discussion about how we are doing things. There truly are a number of ways to approach this, and my way may not be the one that others will recommend. I have done this enough times, and talked with enough people that really know balls (and I mean REALLY know balls) that I am not going to be swayed by somebody telling us we should do this before that. We'll get to it, and get her eating. I am out of time at the moment, but please email me a CURRENT picture or two of her so I can try to assess her body weight. (knbdogs@yahoo.com). When did you get her, from whom, and do you know if she is WC, CH, or CB?
I'll send the rest of my questions later, after I get things settled here.
Take care

If you have a scale, we don't need to worry about pictures. At 235 g, we know where we are, and can periodically check her weight. So she was likely a CH that you got from a petstore, but she ate f/t regularly up until March - is that correct?

A couple of questions about your setup.
- Which size box is she currently in, the 28 or the 15 qt?
- What type of thermometer do you have? (if you have a digital indoor/outdoor type that stores hi/low temps, it will help a lot)
- What type of substrate are you using?
- Are there hides in the box now? If yes, please describe it/them, and where they are placed in relation to the heat source
- Did you offer the f/t dry or wet?
- How did you present it - I know you mentioned tongs, but did you have to do anything special or did she just snatch it right away?
- how is the top currently secured? we don't want any escapes now, lol.

last food offered was 5/1, last enclosure change 5/2 or 5/3. If your thermometer is an indoor/outdoor type, make sure the probe is right over the UTH (tape it, if necessary), and the other piece is at the far end of the cool side - ideally positioned in a manner that will allow you to read the numbers without opening the box (we can work around it if you can't). Gotta run - more later

Ok - one of the other things I wanted to address was what your thoughts are on how you want this to go. What I mean is, do you want to set up some kind of back up plan? I understand you being torn between wanting to do this yourself (with my help) and not wanting to let her deteriorate too much. Were you thinking of something along the lines of what you told Seamus? Possibly sending her to someone else after a certain amount of time?
Let me start by saying if she was eating regularly up until March, we've got some time to work with - but now I find myself actually applying the numbers: She was of an undetermined age when you got her, but in all likelihood, she was a few months old at the time (just basing that on when the bulk of the CH babies come into the country). What was her condition when you bought her? (I think I remember pics of her, I'll try to look for them - if I can't find them easily, I will ask you to track them down. you can click on attachments at the bottom of the column to the left of this message, and it will show you all the pics you have attached to your posts. you can then just PM me the link) Did she look skinny? 235 g for a BP that is almost a year old is on the small side, but that does not mean she is at an unhealthy weight - I base that more on the look test than numbers. Is she starting to look thin? Is her spine showing (peaked)? I will have you recheck her weight in a few weeks, if she has not eaten - just to make sure she isn't dropping too far.
To start with, I want you to monitor & record temps for a few days - anytime you are in that room, just jot down the tiime & indoor (cool) and outdoor (warm) temps (as long as you can do so without opening the box). If your thermometer stores hi/low temps - check & reset them once daily (record them with the other temps)
when you open the box to check water & do NECESSARY cleaning. For the time being, don't do major cleaning. Basically spot cleaning, so you don't have to disrupt her. If you use newspaper, you can still spot clean (though I'm sure it will be difficult to get used to) - just remove feces with a paper towel. If the paper is badly soiled or wet, just tear off that section, wipe the area clean, and add paper. Obviously, if the whole paper is urine soaked, you will do a full clean.
That reminds me - how did you provide ventilation in the box she is in? If holes were drilled/melted in, approx how big are they, and how many are there? Also, what do you use to clean the box when soiled?

Oh, one last question for tonite, how often were you feeding her? Was she on a steady schedule from the time you got her in Sept, or did the frequency vary?

When I get some time tomorrow, I will detail some of the temperature considerations.

Hello,

We have a ruler and two different kinds of screw drivers and some wrench set (I think) and thats about it. The rubbermaid lid like dips up around the edges and has a flat middle. Don't quit know how to explain that. As for how many holes there are, all over the flat surface of the lid Jeff used a screw driver and did it the hard way and then I sand papered all the unsmooth areas underneath the lid so she wouldn't rub her nose on it and hurt herself, it worked though.


When I went down and talked to my LandLords Son Matt I wasn't sure of what I was asking at all and he just popped out some other ideas like having wood around the whole edges of it and making an access hole. Ya know what I don't know. I'm not a crafty person, didn't take anything in school. I managed to outwit a couple of guys on a waterbed and a t.v. stand once but thats it.

I went to Cat with her first escape and she said the same box idea and quit frankly I don't get it. I would need a visual and can't come up with one with those instructions. I defiantly learn visually. I live by a Carter Lumber. I would have to remove her from her home once again to do it, borrow somebody's tools and I don't even have a mental image.

She is on a stand. A large black and glass bedroom stand. First shelf is the Blue Cobalt, second shelf Lickity, third shelf Gex the Leopard Gecko and bottom shelf my Rose hair. Her uth sits on glass. It was where I had to put her, she was on the floor for a few days when I first got her and the uth burnt a nice whole in my carpet. I don't have enough stands. I'm just not getting what you want me to do and any other Resources are ridiculous without a car or I would walk around Wal Mart for hours until I thought of something, or just thinking.

I meant to write you last night and my computer went Cannot find Server on me so I went to bed since it was 5 in the morning. lol I feel bad it went out though because there simply are no pics of Lickity anywhere. Piccolo, Jake and Gex is all you'll find. I have friends with digital cameras and will start the hounding today. I need pics of a baby Leo before I try and ship her to Cat or quit frankly I don't want to do it, one of my babies is visibly to small for me. I need the camera and will work on it, it might take me a minute though.

She USED to be coiled on the cool side when her small log was there and the big log was on the warm side, she wouldn't touch the bigger log. Then she went to the hot side with the dish hides, again thinking the one I put on the cool side was still to large. As of now shes got the two best ones but was informed to leave her alone so I have NO clue were shes been at without peeking in. I lift the towel everyday to see the Acu Rite but haven't seen her in like three days.

About the Thermometer readings, your right I got the Indoor/Outdoor temps switched but it still reads hot and cool side. Her humidity never drops below 45 at the lowest because of the water dish thats without misting. The Thermometer reads humidity when its inside the tank I believe same with the cool side I'm guessing so if I am to keep a temp log I will have to take it out to work with it. Can I lift her lid twice a day to get my readings or should I keep it outside the tank and spritz her once a day. I'm not really worried about the humidity. It will be fine with a spritz once a day, just worried about cool side readings. I bought the SAME Acu Rite Jen posted when I first got her. Do you want me to find it for you?

Am I missing anything? I took a wency quit small half the lid peek in, just one. Hot side is 90.3, cool side 85.3 humidity 51 percent without misting. I saw a part of her on the hot side but not in her hide. Humm? An no I didn't touch her or lift any hides. OH, I did miss something!

Visibly I only know of a few ways to tell if shes underweight and besides her the only Balls I see are Pet Store ones, physically I mean, besides Fauna pics. I always thought baby Balls had a little spine protrusion, just a little. The Adult pics I've seen well of course there all bulky, full grown and nice looking. I have seen bad weight Pet Co Balls. Outside of the spine protruding a lot I notice the weight in baby Balls is lose neck skin, it was on the few I've seen. She has got bulk and I don't SEE any lose skin. I always thought there was seeing the lose skin and then feeling it and lightly pinching it. I haven't held her in the longest time so I haven't felt anything lose on her. I haven't held her. She still visibly looks ok to me but I've only seen the worse cases.

When I bought her from Pet Co she was in a tank with three other cage mates, one of them having that severely folded neck. I stayed away from that one. They had shed skin on them, one of them was dark colored. They had one big log and kept her on Aspen. She was active and coiled herself around their crappy gauge, she slithered through my hands and the vent looked fine, and the eyes and her size seemed decent to me but she was a baby, still looks like a baby to. I mean she hasn't grown a lot longer just a little more bulky in the middle.

On Oct. 13th I took her to the Vet, Pet CO paid. I had no fecal for them but the Vet said no Mites, clean actually awesome looking mouth. He showed me how to open her mouth but she hates that. He told me how to check for Mites. Dr. Seigal said she weighed 81 grams which was skinny and to get her eating which I did two days later. Probed her a female. An I once thought because her eyes were silver tinted she had retained eye caps but nope. Vet didn't see anything and then I ACTUALLY saw one at Pet Co and then knew that wasn't it. Her first shed with me came off not in pieces. Her middle part came off completely but I had to remove her tail and head myself. Every shed since then has been perfect, eye caps and all. Now, anything else. lol

Thanks

Kristin,
I want you to understand that I am not going to be critical of you. There are no right or wrong answers to my questions, and I am not going to pass any judgements based on your responses. If there is something that I want you to change, I will tell you & explain why.

As for sporadic feedings, I am the same way - sometimes related to my schedule, sometimes just because I choose to do it that way, and sometimes because I don't have the type of prey that a given snake wants readily available.

Your assumption regarding temperatures is not correct IN THIS CASE. The outdoor temp is what is read by the probe, which you have taped over the UTH (ignore my suggestion about doing this, I typed that PM before receiving this response.)

With the things set up as they have been, has she been staying coiled up in the cool side hide? or have you noticed her coming out.

For the top, you have a couple of options - what you are doing works, but I tend to be cautious about weighting down the lids because of the potential for compression/distortion (ok, I admit it, I worry about the darn thing caving in). If your friend can make you a box out of scrap wood with just enough top clearance to fit the tub in, you can slide the tub inside and she won't be able to push her way out. *be advised though, that if he makes it with a back panel, you will have to monitor, and probably adjust the set temperatures, because it will tend to hold heat better. you could also put a piece of board or plywood over the top and weight it down that way - this distributes the weight more equally.

Me
Hey,

I just went to Pro Exotics and was reading through there FAQ's, very informative. I've come to new conclusions, wheres Seamus to head butt me somemore and call me a genuine IDIOT! Its needed. I'm smacking myself upside my own head ever so constantly. All I've learned in the past, WOW! Let me just that just because you've been into Herps for a year or even more time doesn't mean your still not a newbie. Also don't EVER try and compare one Snake to another! I used to do that comparison thing between the Corn and the Ball. People use the Motto "A Snake is a Snake." way to often and I was one of them. My Corn has NOTHING to do with my Ball, two totally different Creatures even if they are the general term SNAKE.

I have a couple temp readings for you here and wrote down my max and mins which I never did use to before. *Insert Seamus's Idiot here* The max and mins I got are 102.9 and 115.5 Max 71.4 and 46.2 Min I am not sure about being overly concerned with that because that thing hasn't been cleared since week one of having her, probably even before I got the Thermostat which was two weeks after having her I believe. All I can do now is Record them NOW and then go ahead and be concerned.

Last night her temps read In 84.0 Out 90.5 59% humidity. This morning 91.2 and 82.2 73% humidity and yes I changed the water dish last night and boy does it raise humidity.

I was wondering now that my husbandry issues are looking good except for temps, maybe? We'll see. What about room environment, as in the ROOM shes in. Maybe my fan in Summer, Space Heater in Winter and the fact that I don't run these things all the time is affecting temps. Everybody's (Critters) in my bedroom which is the lowest traffic room in the house. We as humans are nighters. We have the light on through cleaning animals at night other then that use the walk in closets light. We run the fan on low all the time, except maybe sometimes when were at work, thats harder to keep track of. I don't know if Jeff does or not. There used to be a phone in there but I found another plug outside of that room. YEAH! So no phone in there now. Only other noisy appliances I have are my alarm and the air purifier kept on low for little noise. Very little noise, I mean I can still sleep? I also have plastic over my one window, don't know if thats good or bad but could very well be overthinking that. Its just something I had a wonder about.

I found a bulk spot last night reading temps and changing water. Lickity is on the hot side under the small dishes newspaper, so pretty much a newspaper sandwich. I pray shes feeling secure and safe. That was issue number one not to long ago. Hide issues. I just hope shes feeling better!

I have a few more questions for vocabulary if thats ok? What are the exact definitions of Colubrid, Neonate and Boid. I've seen these words a lot but don't quit understand.

Waiting for your thoughts and Thanks a bunch.

Kristin,
I'm not overlly concerned with specific feeding records, what you have told me so far is enough. Don't worry about pics of Lickity, either, having a weight is better, IMO. If she has not eaten in a couple of weeks, I will ask you to weigh her again to get an idea of where she is. Don't worry about the scale increment, either; it isn't so much exact numbers I am looking for, as that I want to make sure she hasn't lost a lot of weight.

HHMoore-You're right - it isn't the best idea to try to compare different kinds of snakes, even when talking about different genera, let alone crossing into different families. Even within Pythonidae (Family: Pythons), there are significant differences in the various genera - which is why I pointed out that I was very familiar with the differences between BPs and other types of pythons (genera is the plural of genus, a smaller breakdown of scientific classification. Scientific names are composted of Genus, species, and subspecies - for example, the common boa is Boa constrictor imperator...often abbreviated BCI)
You are right, the old temps (min/max) are pretty much useless...except to point out that at some point, there were possibly some serious issues. No sense in trying to analyze them at this point - too much has changed. As long as you reset them, we'll start checking them regularly...every few days is good for now, unless there appears to be a problem.Last night her temps read In 84.0 Out 90.5 59% humidity. This morning 91.2 and 82.2 73% humidity and yes I changed the water dish last night and boy does it raise humidity.
From what you have described, things sound pretty good right now...but we do need to see what is going on with the temperatures, as that can be a huge issue.
Room environment can be an issue, especially if there are extremes. With a well acclimated, feeding snake, I don't worry too much about things like environmental noise, light levels, etc...but with a nonfeeder, I eventually try to minimize all such sensory stimulation. The fan and space heater could be factors, depending on how they affect enclosure temperatures. Remember, you are not dealing with a static environment - as room temperatures go up and down, there will be corresponding changes in the enclosure temps. Setting a thermostat does not reduce the need to be mindful of what is going on insde the box. It doesn't sound like there is too much going on in the room, so you don't have to worry about trying to changing your room habits.

Colubrids are a snakes of family Colubridae. This family includes more than half the snake species in the world, including: kingsnakes, bullsnakes, ratsnakes, watersnakes.
Neonate means newborn (new baby)
Boids are snakes of family Boidae. Depending on which reference you use, Pythons may or may not be considered part of this group. In its simplest form, a boid is a type of boa constrictor (including both the "normal" boas and the sand/rubber/rosy boas); but when used conversationally, ie in the forums or when referenced in legal statutes, it would mean boas & pythons

Howdy,

How are you? Are you back home yet? Hope it was a nice trip. I have Lickity's Temp. Records here. So here they are since 5/7. Night temps 90.3 & 82.6 73% 5/7 Morning Temps 92.5 & 84.0 71%
5/7 Next night temps. 90.7 & 85.3 64%
5/8 Morning (6:30 a.m.) Temps 93.0 & 80.4 69%
5/8 Night Temps 92.1 & 88.5 55%
Max 92.3 and 95.2 Min 80.2 and 88.9
The 95 temps in this case happened while I was at work because Jeff shut off the ac and opened the windows. I keep the house Thermostat at 76 or 77. When I came home it was 83 in here for that Reason. I gave him a lecture about frying Critters. lol
5/9 3:30 a.m. 61% 91.0 & 85.8
5/9 Afternoon Temps 91.2 & 83.8 62%
5/10 Night Temps 93.0 & 85.8 52% ( I completely forgot that morning.)
5/11 Night Temps 91.2 & 85.3 66% ( I ran out the house that morning. I had a case of some funky alarm Gnomes or Gremlins. lol)
5/12 7:17 a.m. 95.5 & 88.9 64% (Hhmmm, The house was set on ac and I had the fan running, I don't get where these Temps came from or how they could have happened?)
5/12 Night Temps 93.0 & 89.4 58% I changed the water bowl tonite and last Tuesday. The Temps tonite early morning 5/13 (right now) are 91.6 & 85.6 59%
Max ( from last Tuesday to now 5/13) are 95.5 & 92.3
Min Temps 88.7 & 80.2
Humidity Max and Mins 77% & 43%

So I am thinking I need a Temperature 101 Session here. I don't get how the Temps went up that high first off. I also don't quit know how to control them. For instance warming up your cool end? Do you use another heat device, ignore it, turn the fan off? I asked this question on the Forums and it never got answered. Also how high is to high and how low is to low in both the hot and cool side. These fluxes I noticed like the night I worked only happened for a few hours. Is that enough to bother her from eating? The other 95 degree Temp happened in the early morning and I KNOW its cooler in the early morning. Don't tell me Nature made a fool of me. lol Sitting in wonderment.

Thank You VERY much,

Kristin


HHMoore-If you want to go with recommended numbers, then you are running a bit high - but leave them alone for now. I will explain my reason for saying that, and run you through a basic Temperature 101 after I get home...I just don't want to spend that much time on the computer right now.

You can try feeding anytime now - probably best to shoot for when she is out of the log hide, lol. Since you said you defrost in water, start out the way you usually do (however that is). After the mouse is fully defrosted, put it in a small container of the hottest water that comes out of your tap and bring it into the room with you. remove the top, then grasp the mouse with the tongs behind the front legs (or you can do just in front of the rear legs; but if you have to manipulate it, you will get more realistic positioning/movement by from further up the body).
Before I go any further - what are you using for feeding tongs...I remember you said you used something, I just don't recall what
When you lift it out of the water, just give it a couple quick shakes to get rid of the worst of the water - the idea being to get it offered before it starts to cool down. Make your initial offering more or less the way you usually do. If she doesn't resond, move it away from her a bit, and lightly bounce it along the floor - "walking" it around a bit. Don't touch her with it or run it right in front of her (at least not yet). You may find that you need to remove some of the extra stuff from the box to do this. If she shows no interest, just move it closer and "twitch" it a bit. Finding the movement that stimulates a strike sometimes takes some messing around, but these are the best places to start. If she just doesn't take it, set it on the cool side, shut the lights out, & leave the room for a while (or go to bed).
Let me know how it works out. (even if she takes it, I'll tell you the stuff I was going to about temperatures)

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/...06/DSCN0181.jpg

Here is a picture of Lickity's set up. I know I don't listen (only sometimes) and I apologize but it was important to me. This was taken on a night of Max Min readings and water changes so I the lid was already off and I didn't go bothering her of course. I just want to make SURE I am doing OK. I have instant access to a digital now. Yeah!

I THINK I have an appropriate water bowl. Being a baby she likes these smaller hides. The only one I don't like is that darn log. She CRAMS herself in their, its hard to get her out and when she has her head in the center of her crammedness (whatever) she can't hunt from there. I have never had luck feeding her when shes in that log. Always on nights when shes out and roaming. I'm not sure what thats about, if its ok, or what to do besides find a different hide but she likes the darn log. The Thermostat and Thermometer are duck taped tightly onto the newspaper under the beige dish. The crumpled pieces of newspaper I got from that night in chat from LadyOhh. I think they ad some extra exploration and cover. I taped a towel to the front of her rubbermaid so we can't see eachother but she still gets light not direct from the Sun. The Window is above my bed to the left in this picture. What do you think?

Thanks


HHMoore- Kristin,
Okay, on to the subject of temperature. Many people think that all pythons have the same temperature requirements, and that hotter is better. While the latter is true (to an extent) for some Asian species, it is hardly universal. In the case of the ball python, one only need consider their natural habitat and habits to understand some of the differences. Ball pythons, as you may already know, are primarily found on savannahs & at the edges of forests. They are typically most active at dawn & dusk. The hot, daytime hours are typically spent hidden underground in animal burrows, which is why they like dark, tight, slightly cooler hides. For practical purposes, in captivity, a temperature range with a low of 78-80, and a warm spot of 86-90 is very effective. Many also do well with a more consistent temperature…as in a temperature controlled room. Warmer (or cooler) temperatures will get different responses, according to the individual snake. As I mentioned previously, some of mine went off feed related to high temperatures during the winter…but others fed like champs the whole time (yes, I said high temps, lol). By the same token, I accidentally unplugged the heat tape a couple of times, and many of them did not feed (that is actually how I came to realize I had shut the heat off). Once through the cold winter months, mine gradually are returned to room temperature (84). I do have a few in a lightly heated rack; but it is a very small heated area, and the temperature is only 86-88 degrees. The only reason they are getting supplemental heat at this time is that I have a couple of gravid snakes in the top few boxes, and they need the heat for proper fetal development. I think that as many people keep their BPs too hot, as too cool…frequently with the same frustrating results.
So, the answer to your question about the next real step would be that I would have instructed you to drop the temperatures a bit (but not immediately). As for the hows of adjusting temperature, let’s look at the different factors involved.
Enclosure size and type - this one is pretty straightforward. Some enclosures are easy to heat, others are not. The more open airspace within any enclosure, the more you have to do to keep it warm – this is one reason many keepers prefer low cages. A screen top allows for a lot of air exchange – unfortunately, in most cases, room temperatures are typically cooler than the snake’s ideal, and much of the heat provided escapes…leaving the snake in suboptimal conditions. (Obviously, screen tops make it very difficult to maintain humidity, as well).
Heat source – some provide primarily localized heating, while others do much more for increasing ambient temperatures.
Room Temp – for some reason, this seems to be a frequently forgotten piece of the puzzle. Changes in room temp WILL impact enclosure temperatures…even if you are utilizing a thermostat (but to a lesser degree than if you are not). With a thermostatically controlled enclosure, as the room temp changes, you will see more change in cool side/ambient temps…the heated area should be pretty consistent, due to the controller. When utilizing a rheostat, both the warm and cool sides will change with the room temperature. It is important to remember that this happens both when room temp increases AND decreases.
Thermal mass – this concept is not understood by a lot of people. Basically, by increasing the mass within the enclosure, you can both a) influence temperatures, and b) keep them more stable. I will give two examples to help illustrate the idea:
- I use a large cooler as an incubator. I have heat tape on the bottom, controlled by a proportional thermostat. On top of that, I have a row or two of water bottles. The water bottles serve to help keep temperatures constant and decrease the fluctuation that would occur when the incubator is opened. (The warm water acts as a heat dam, reducing the effect of the cooler air that enters the incubator).
- A couple of years ago, I sold a customer a snake. He purchased a cage from a manufacturer I recommended. Heated it the same way I heated mine. But was unable to attain proper temperatures. It drove me crazy for a while, as I tried to help him sort it out. What it boiled down to was the difference in thermal mass…same cage, same heat, but different contents. He had a fairly small snake, with minimal extras (actually, the cage was large, so he had the snake in a sterilite box inside the cage), whereas I had a large snake with a heavy ceramic water bowl. The weight of his snake, the bowl (full), and even the Sterilite, was under 1 pound…vs about 20 lbs for mine. All that extra mass enabled the heat source to more effectively heat the enclosure. (another example, from the opposite end of the spectrum, is how they suggest to put water bottles in a fairly empty refrigerator or freezer to make it work more efficiently).

If the snake had continued to be stubborn, we would have tweaked temperatures, the contents of the enclosure, prey items, presentation, etc until we hit the right combination.

You asked about dry defrosting. Simply take the mouse out of the freezer, and leave it at room temperature until thawed. Unless you take some steps to heat it though, it will only be as warm as the room, which may sometimes not be enough to stimulate a response for some snakes (those that rely on thermoreceptors, for example). That is why so many people say to make sure the prey item is warm/hot before offering.
I’m sure there is more, but it is escaping me at this moment & I have to go fix people. I don’t know if I mentioned it before, but you might want to consider getting a pair of long tweezers for feeding instead of the kitchen tongs

HHMoore- we're at 6 days...you can feed her again any time. Let me know how it goes


Me- Hey,

She finally ate the night of the 13th. YEAH! Also not really though. I think she gave me false confidence. First off though I feed her an f/t adult Mouse like in the pics I sent. It was a little extra wet. I only swiped over it with a paper towel. I use kitchen tongs and they are metal by the way. She was in the middle of the tub with her head in the small log. I didn't take the towel off because that would freak her out and make her run for cover but I had to lift it. I lifted it a little bit and she contracted her body, she did this like twice but then finally turned her head around and saw the Mouse and BAM. I also misted her before feeding. She struck and constricted but I think she did this a couple of times. Peculiar behavior to me thats for sure? Its what I've called "playing with your food." Why in the world do they do that? All I know is I heard a couple loud thuds across the rubbermaid. I hear this sometimes. I don't know.

Also what I mean by false confidence is I've been reading posts. It seems to me a lot of people have problems with feeding. They give up and feed live or feed Gerbils and then try and fix that. My biggest concern is a lot of people post their Ball will eat one week and then not again for two weeks, then they'll eat for three weeks then take the month off. Bill said my feeding schedule shouldn't be so sporadic well it seems to me everybody's Balls eat sporadicly. I wonder if his do? So I'm just wondering if shes teasing me and if she'll keep eating through Summer.

I have a few questions now though.
1. What should her feeding regiment be? I thought babies a little under weight got feed every five days?
2. How do you thaw out a Mouse with the "dry" method? I haven't read how to do but read it can make a difference with a picky eater.
3. If she wouldn't of eaten what were you going to have me try next?
4. I forget any other questions I had for now but pertaining to three will you stick around? As in can I come back for questions when she will obviously do this again. The same trick might not work next time. I have a good basis understanding of how to do things and how to keep her environment stable now. Like I said though even with my underlying problems fixed she will fast again and I might need to try something else to get her to eat.

My other thoughts on this are NO MORE Balls. I really enjoy her except when she won't eat. Grrrrrrrr. Everybody specializes though. I still want to deal with Snakes just maybe Balls aren't for me. I know there will be no more and I'm still thinking about if I'm going to keep her or ship her this Summer maybe next Summer?? I do believe that there is a Snake out there for me. Everybody picks their Critters and for various reasons. Varnyard and Tegus right? Marcia and Leos. Every animal has there problems and there areas to I think. Balls are notorious for being finicky eaters. Emerald Tree Pythons need you to understand humidity and they come with some picky eating to I've read.

Jeff and myself were talking about Rats last night and if we'd do it again. I am happy to have them. I've excelled learning about them and in doing so take great care of them. I also bought Rats to of course learn about my Snakes food and I've done a good job on that Mission. They have medical problems though which makes us NOT want to do it again and at least not before having way more money. We know so much about them now that we know this Winter is going to be the Winter the Respiratory problems will hit them. I think we are still young and still searching through Critters. I love them all but just haven't found my Snake yet to specialize in. Jeff has already found T's. I haven't found mine. Does that make any sense? lol

Thanks

HHMoore's Final. glad to hear she ate again.
RE: temps. my BPs are currently in a temp controlled room. I ran supplemental heat during the winter, when the room temp ran a few degrees cooler than usual; but for the most part, the heat tapes/cables have been off for about a month. I had to move one snake from a low shelf to a higher one because she wasn't eating, and she fed later that day.
I don't recall what you are using to control temps - a thermostat or rheostat (dimmer) - for right now, just keep an eye on temps...obviously, if they get TOO high, they will have to be adjusted. If they stay the same, I would suggest getting a few more meals in her before changing anything - if possible.
If you are using a thermostat - what is the set temperature? (if you don't mind - let me know what you are using so I can better describe how you should approach this)

Prey items & size - there is no problem using mice until she is ready for small rats...just that many people don't like to offer more than one prey item per meal. At some point, she will reach the point where one mouse leaves her wanting more, but a small rat is too large. Weanling rats range in size from adult mouse to a little smaller than a small rat, so they fill that gap. It also gives her a taste for rats, lol. Some people have reported having BPs that would only take mice as adults, which is undesirable based on the quantity it would take to make a meal. I haven't really encountered that with CH or CB BPs. I do have one that is big enough for mediums, but will only eat smalls, though ...guess she doesn't like that bloated feeling.

Lickity weighed in at 275 grams when she started and ended at 375 grams! What a piggy when she wants to be! lol I will be getting her Rats. I give Harold my Sincerest Thanks! I am grateful for any knowledge I can come across.

If everybody doesn't know I am moving and can not take my computer with me or the Rescues! I am sending Jeff here since he will still have a computer and we'll see if he comes. I will miss you guys and see you far and between but I WILL be back someday!

For those of you that have no idea what this is about - a few months ago, Kristin was having problems with an off-feed BP (Lickity). She was getting a lot of advice from a number of people...one of my first comments to her was that she pick one person, and follow their suggestions. As luck would have it, she asked me to help her. The above posts are some of the PMs that were sent between us during the process.
I found them a little hard to follow...and I know what I said, lol. They aren't too hard to figure out though.
After rereading them now, I have this to say: I hate reading my own typos!!!!
Good luck with your move, Kristin - glad to hear she is still eating and putting on weight.