Adenovirus questions

It should cost about 25 dollars from what I understand, and I would of course rather pay extra amount.

I would also rather know that the breeder does this already without having to be poked and proded to do so!

Tere,

I haven't seen any new info since that big "discussion" regarding adeno that happened, but do you know of any improvements in the testing to get more reliable results?

Originally Posted by monkeywrench133

Tere,

I haven't seen any new info since that big "discussion" regarding adeno that happened, but do you know of any improvements in the testing to get more reliable results?

Erin-

I haven't heard a thing. I know the fecal testing is still available through Lou Ann Miller, and there are several different places that offer PCR testing. But as far as anything new, well...don't hold your breath!

Originally Posted by willows chelle

It should cost about 25 dollars from what I understand, and I would of course rather pay extra amount.

I would also rather know that the breeder does this already without having to be poked and proded to do so!

The main problem with that little $25 test, is that it needs to be performed several times to REALLY confirm that a dragon is negative. We don't know how the virus is shed. Is it shed constantly or off and on? Since we don't have the answer to that, multiple tests over long periods of time are required. To be completely frank, buyers would certainly not be willing to pay enough money to cover the costs of such testing, not to mention the cost of keeping and raising an animal for a long period of time. It just isn't going to happen. You can test your breeders, and ASSUME that the babies are going to be negative...but once again, many rounds of testing are needed to determine the status of the parent dragon. I've considered testing, but to be honest, until I have a reason to suspect that anything is wrong with my colony, I probably won't bother unless I just happen to have lots of extra cash sitting around. The evidence does not even really point to adenovirus being a killer in all cases...there may be varying degrees of lethality, different strains, or perhaps dragons are forming an immunity to it.

Jamie

To add another interesting little tid-bit of information, I own breeding stock from several of the "big breeders" who are known or suspected to have adeno-positive colonies. All new dragons that I get are kept in quarantine for 90 days, and then introduced into the colony. Interestingly, I have had no problems with any of the dragons, including the dragons that one might consider "suspect", nor have I had any of my other dragons, babies or adult, become sick. It is thought that adeno really attacks young babies, so I would assume that the 100's of hatchlings that I have produced over the last three years would have been exposed, and at least SOME of them should have shown adeno symptoms by now. So this either means that I do not have adeno-positive dragons by some stroke of luck or divine intervention, or it could mean that adeno is not that big a deal anymore, and that dragons are forming a natural resistance.

Jamie

I am considering testing, but spoke with my vet about it...and it seems the reliability of the tests are not even 90%. Adenovirus can be detected in stool, but can be in the lungs, kidneys, liver, and not in the gastrointestinal system. He also stated that because I keep my hatchlings for 12 weeks before selling, that if the adenovirus was present, it would show before then. And he also stated it would affect the whole clutch-not just one or two. I may have to agree with Valley because if you have had hatchlings who are the most susceptible to demise, and they have all been healthy, then this should indicate a rather convincing argument for your breeder pairs. I am a hobbyist and feel that my dragons are healthy. I have had no issues except for the occasional positive pinworms. I have no loss of weight or any issue related to illness, except for Lucy who I have had for 5 years, and the vet has followed her for the past 2-3 months. None of them have ever stopped eating, or became inactive except for brumation. I have to agree with Sean also...if you feel a test should be run on a baby you are thinking about buying ask the breeder to do so. I have 55 eggs in the incubator and could never ever afford to test them all myself. Take care all, Beth

Y'all have brought up some good points for sure.

Thanks for all the input!

Hello,

The fecal test is very reliable, but as already stated needs to be done several times to be more confident in readings. Lou Ann has told me several times that they shed it normally at varying rates, which is usally dependent upon variables such as stress, breeding, etc.
There is the PCR that can be done to confirm a negative reading however, once a negative fecal has been done. There is a lab at Texas A & M that does the Elisa test which is accurate as well. The most accurate tests would be via DNA reading. If it gets into the DNA, they will be carriers for life, which I don't particularly like the idea of them carrying around a virus that could crop up & affect a colony out of the blue. To me, that doesn't seem very fair. That is just me though.
True, they could begin to get a type of immunity to it, such as we can to colds. However, keep in mind that virus' can & will mutate to affect the host. We see that quite often, so, if it did that, it would begin doing different things & taking on a different strain than was previously affecting them to begin with. I doubt though, that they would get immune to it. However, they could get build up resistance to the virus, which would possibly make it harder to get infected. Though once exposed, they would get it, but maybe not quite as bad as others might. Plus, it depends on genetics & how hearty the breed or particular dragon might be.
It is best to not take chances & just try to gradually weed the virus out.
Yes, babies do tend to show the virus because they don't have much of an immune system & they stress easily. Babies would be good to test.
You could grab a couple or a few & do a test on them to see what they come out as.
The whole point is that breeders start making an effort to ensure that the buyer is at least being sold as healthy of a dragon as possible. I get alot of emails asking questions about it. I do know people who have told me that they would be willing to pay several hundred dollars if they knew that the dragon had come from negative breeders. I am having trouble helping these people find dragons right now.
All of the people who have had so many problems with Adeno virus have had so many setbacks & even gotten out of breeding because of it. So, try asking those people if testing is worth it??
I know so many people who have had dragons with Adeno & have spent thousands of dollars trying to keep their dragons alive.

Tere, it is great to see you on the boards!

Tracie

Thanks, Tracie! It's great to see you, too. Seems like forever since we had a good long talk! We might just have to change that soon.

You posted some things that I was not aware of, such as the Elisa test being available. I would love to hear more about this.

I will answer your question about testing being worth it...ABSOLUTELY. Positive or negative, my dragons are still my babies, and anything that can help me know what may cause some of the strange things that go on with Adeno dragons is well worth it, in my opinion. That's just all I'm going to say about that because the last thing I need is to get in yet another argument with anyone about this issue.

Hello,

Thank you Tere. No, no need to get into more arguments on AV. You of all people know the worth of knowing or not knowing.
Yes, I do have new information, thanks to a person I have met around a year or so ago. I am looking into trying to get involved with them for future testing opportunities for those who may be interested in confirmation of negatives.
The U. of Florida was not real interested right now, & was not currently working on any research for the AV, either. Dr. Jacobson did not give me much time on the phone, as well.

Yeah we need to talk soon!

Tracie