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Old 05-11-2008, 05:43 PM   #71
pscaulkins
Breeders it's time to prove your theories

Okay enough bashing and name calling. Is this all there is to this forum?
You want to discuss adeno lets do it right. Heck, if I was in the market for a dragon and read this thread. I would not chose one breeder that has posted here as a breeder that I would want to do business with.

I have a few questions I would like answered myself. Just like you people, can you prove without a doubt the following questions. Do any of you have any scientific evidence that backs what you all say about adeno? So far I have read personal opinions and we all know they don't stand up a bit.

How does anyone know that adeno does not effect dragons?

Can anyone prove that a positive dragon can and will live a full normal life span?

Some people say it's in most dragons, anyone have any prove to back this. Exact percentages and such.

How do you people know husbandry causes the issues some positive dragons have? Do any of you know what those people's husbandry is like? Have you bothered to ask them? Who told you this?

So you all want scientific proof of what Tracie and us say, now it is your time to prove what you say.

I am more than willing to read whatever you can prove.

Let's do this in a mature way and not with childish posts like in the past. Otherwise, no one learns a thing and everyone reading this sees immature behavior.
 
Old 05-11-2008, 05:52 PM   #72
Tere Salazar
Excellent post, Sandy. Some very good questions, I think.
 
Old 05-11-2008, 06:24 PM   #73
pscaulkins
Hi Tere, all I want is to find out how they all came to their conclusions. Is there research that only a few people know about? This whole thread is a bash against one person. Not a thread for information unless you are looking for a breeder and will learn who to stay away from.

I am sure lots of people would want to know if they have scientific proof to back their statements. I know I do because if they have it, I am more than willing to read it.
 
Old 05-11-2008, 06:57 PM   #74
Extreme Dragons
I think that it is very sad to that many of the bigger breeders do not frequent the forums and share their experience due to the idiots that bash people and pick out lines from their post to hold against them for eternity like scummy journalist and politicians. I would love to hear examples from Dachiu, Sandfire, Sunshine, and others of symptoms they have come across what works and what doesnt not just on adeno but on everything. I believe that they would help others in this way if it wasnt for people pointing out the bad stuff for ages. What if Sandfire came out and said they had such and such problem this is how they remedied it and how they recovered. People on here would take the problem they encountered and blame them for the existance of the problem and discourage people from buying from them as they too will likely have this problem. Im tired of spending hours of my time disconnected from my family reading these post for the very little info I get out of them.

I live in Frankfort,KY not too many big shows around here nor big breeders, I use this site to get info so I can correct something I may be doing wrong or for reference for future problems. I dont come on here to go back to 7th grade and here a bunch of garbage.

I yes Sandy I would consider buying from the breeders on here, I havent seen one thing in this thread that would tell me not too. This thread has however told me how little you and Tracie know about dragons. I have kept dragons for 3 years now and have started breeding this year. I have 8 adults and currently 21 babies, and around 50 eggs and I still dont believe that I know enough to be giving out info as Tracie does and she doesnt have half the experience I have.

I once thought that CheriS was the person to seek advice from, but after seeing the yellow fungus thing a couple of years ago and now this I believe that her and others on here could simply be hypercondriacts(spelling) I have family memebers like that, they always think there is something wrong with them and always think they are going to die.

And NO adeno is not like Hiv. From what I know Hiv always turns into aids eventually and aids will always eventually kill you (unless your Magic Johnson and have millions ) and I havent seen anything that tells me adeno will always show its ugly face and kill every dragon that has it.

To all the big breeders, there are plenty of people on here that respect you and are willing to listen and not judge you based on your experiences. Please share what you know and stop allowing idoits to push you away. Thanks, Charlie
 
Old 05-11-2008, 07:37 PM   #75
draggintails
The "immature" behavior you say you are seeing is instead complete shock at your leaders deception. No one was called names , her persona was described. It is not correct to be hypocritical, visit some of your old posts.

You are correct, anyone reading this thread will see that PATS is a fraudulent organization..it's leader has mislead the public regarding testing results..this is a crime. These people will know to stay away from this organization and it's supporters and the breeders listed on it's breeders page.

Regarding not doing business with any of the good people on this thread...with 2,000 views on this thread, just the opposite has happened...many, many emails and private messages has come in thanking us for our truthfulness and people saying they will purchase dragons from these "honest" and "open" breeders. Proof will be noticed in the lack of correspondence PATS receives.

Make some calls Monday to IL, read the U of FL document. When you want proof it is best to do your own footwork.
 
Old 05-11-2008, 08:19 PM   #76
pscaulkins
Still no proof. Give scientific evidence and I will listen.

I chose to do business with responsible, mature adults, not angry, rude, immature people. I am sure there is other people with the same attitudes as me. I have seen the above in many posts on this thread.

Yes, I would love to read what vet's, researchers and even large breeders has to say as long as it is not a yelling match.

The U of FL document states "not to breed positive dragons". What more do you need.

I have no leader, sheesh, now that is really mature thinking.

I can see no one on this site can have a intelligent conversation without knocking someone. No wonder no large breeder will come here.

There is no evidence on your side either. I didn't expect to read any. So maybe both sides are wrong. Ever think of that.
 
Old 05-11-2008, 09:14 PM   #77
Mooing Tricycle
What was the reason all those new bearded people come over from the other forums anyway?
 
Old 05-11-2008, 09:16 PM   #78
draggintails
Sandy,


You must read the U of FL document the vets and researchers give you their information

U of FL document:
addressing prevalence: 5.8, 5.11
addressing husbandry: 4.2

This U of FL document holds the most information we have at this time, Austria should come out with their document soon and I or whomever sees it first will post that up as soon as it is published. I can call tomorrow and see where they are on that, all they have released is that they are currently testing positive but do not have statistics or research published yet.

The U of FL document does not say "do not breed positives"

IL prevalence 80% positive
IL did not give any other information except a statistic



What I do not agree with and why I am posting on this thread..is the attacking of the breeders for "spreading" a virus here and abroad. Blaming breeders for this. I have never participated in that. I disagree with those that do. Just as those that feel that way can attack viciously..the others like myself who feel differently may post as well.

AU is testing positive for AV on submission samples, this is important information that sheds new light on this virus.
 
Old 05-11-2008, 09:18 PM   #79
jenkznza
pscaulkins what do you qualifies one as a large breeder?
 
Old 05-11-2008, 09:20 PM   #80
jenkznza
Ooops. I'm running out of coffee. LOL The question is what do you feel qualifies one to be considered as a large breeder?
 

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