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Old 06-24-2007, 07:22 PM   #21
outsdr2
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskersmom
Lately there's been quite alot of discussion regarding inbreeding bearded dragons in order to create what some people think are a desirable trait. I think this is wrong but would like to know what others think.
Let me put it this way...do you think that it's worth the risk of genetic related problems (even years down the line) to breed related dragons?
Hello , absolutely not. can someone please define a genetic tear? my understanding is that to see the negative results of inbreeding takes atleast 10 generations. (Ross&Marzec (1990). also I wonder if someone could mess up the bloodline by making a weaker species and ultimately lead to the genetic exhaustion of one given bloodline.

Jack
 
Old 06-24-2007, 07:22 PM   #22
puppytoes72
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey
The total number of points required to trigger a suspension with a fine attached to be reinstated has been lowered from 500 points to 300 points.


Jean
ok thanks,i didnt realize you were a moderator too
 
Old 06-24-2007, 07:25 PM   #23
puppytoes72
good point jack
 
Old 06-24-2007, 07:29 PM   #24
mikey
Jack, since the other thread is locked, can you please tell me what this translated in english says exactly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by outsdr2
Hello this is why we are all against silkbacks they are an inbred freak of nature. they no longer can blackbeard , and from what I understand from Allesandros own post on an Italian reptile site. Allesandro admits he has no problem inbreeding.

nothing of piu simple ..... I say simply that to couple brother and sister it could not create no problem in theory. practically it could succeed that 1) the cuccioli arrive to being you form to you in the egg but they do not have force enough in order to exit, the 2) cuccioli that then you will give via could turn out sterile (imagined how much puo to incazzare who takes your animals and after many efforts it does not succeed to make cucciolo), 3) females begin to produce little eggs (I make present you that many of the cuccioli that I am sending in the United States they serve mainly for rinsanguare their lines, in the United States there are enormous animals that do not reproduce themselves or that they produce cuccioli that do not succeed to carry ahead), 4) one of the problems correlate to you with the snow (I rifare myself to an other post) is just the quantitative one of inbreeding pr trying to always select animals piu white men who pear tree do not succeed to produce that little vital cuccioli.

the history to potrebbeessere still long but you saving.
the rules of the good breeder, also little animals but with sure origins, to maintain rising of genealogico tree of the animals in the breeding cosi to be sure that the animals intercross to you are piu the possible distant.

much people do not understand, especially with the pogone, than enough not to take the two beautifulst ones pogone from the same breeder and riaccoppiarle epr to make a good job. it would have to take the two pogone and reincrociarle with others two coming from different from two various breeders whom in its turn they know to you to indicate from where the great breeders in realta come the animals (are little), to grow the cuccioli and to perhaps riaccoppiare the coming from animals from the two groups ..... and lack enough!!!!!!

perhaps she is for that many times new coloration does not come comprised the job made behind the creation of one and is for that people many times do not understand “the high” price of some animals….

salutes
alemoz

if you want to see more google, alemoz,alemoz2,and silkback you will see the same fury in his own country. so please don't try to say just a few are troublemakers, as the outrage is worldwide. whenever it gets close to finding the truth about inbreeding silkbacks, someone has a knack for disappearing.

Jack

Jack, I ask again...what does this exactly say in english..
 
Old 06-24-2007, 07:47 PM   #25
puppytoes72
it really sucks when you ask someone a question and they dont answer you huh ??
 
Old 06-24-2007, 07:50 PM   #26
mikey
Quote:
Originally Posted by outsdr2
Hello , absolutely not. can someone please define a genetic tear? my understanding is that to see the negative results of inbreeding takes atleast 10 generations. (Ross&Marzec (1990). also I wonder if someone could mess up the bloodline by making a weaker species and ultimately lead to the genetic exhaustion of one given bloodline.

Jack
Did you take that from this thread also....




considered that the so-called one “imbreeding depression” in the rectums them is begun to verify, according to Ross&Marzec (1990), around to the tenth generation of consanguinity. The lowering, for compromissione, of the defense of immunity is only one of the modalities with which such manifest phenomenon. As an example in the boidi (i.e some north-European lines of blood of A.dumerili) are often the selection of geniuses bearers chronic respiratory problems that debilitate the animal until death. Such occurrence however has been taken place also in within morph with the first USA lines of moluri albino and green taken advantage of (especially the second one) to the improbable one. That you from also the sense of like in the years, man by hand that the market morph has been gone expanding, has been experienced and made to rise to routinaria praxis one series of practical riproduttive apt to ask for the genetic exhaustion of one given bloodline.
 
Old 06-24-2007, 07:51 PM   #27
outsdr2
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey
Jack, since the other thread is locked, can you please tell me what this translated in english says exactly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by outsdr2
Hello this is why we are all against silkbacks they are an inbred freak of nature. they no longer can blackbeard , and from what I understand from Allesandros own post on an Italian reptile site. Allesandro admits he has no problem inbreeding.


nothing of piu simple ..... I say simply that to couple brother and sister it could not create no problem in theory. practically it could succeed that 1) the cuccioli arrive to being you form to you in the egg but they do not have force enough in order to exit, the 2) cuccioli that then you will give via could turn out sterile (imagined how much puo to incazzare who takes your animals and after many efforts it does not succeed to make cucciolo), 3) females begin to produce little eggs (I make present you that many of the cuccioli that I am sending in the United States they serve mainly for rinsanguare their lines, in the United States there are enormous animals that do not reproduce themselves or that they produce cuccioli that do not succeed to carry ahead), 4) one of the problems correlate to you with the snow (I rifare myself to an other post) is just the quantitative one of inbreeding pr trying to always select animals piu white men who pear tree do not succeed to produce that little vital cuccioli.

the history to potrebbeessere still long but you saving.
the rules of the good breeder, also little animals but with sure origins, to maintain rising of genealogico tree of the animals in the breeding cosi to be sure that the animals intercross to you are piu the possible distant.

much people do not understand, especially with the pogone, than enough not to take the two beautifulst ones pogone from the same breeder and riaccoppiarle epr to make a good job. it would have to take the two pogone and reincrociarle with others two coming from different from two various breeders whom in its turn they know to you to indicate from where the great breeders in realta come the animals (are little), to grow the cuccioli and to perhaps riaccoppiare the coming from animals from the two groups ..... and lack enough!!!!!!

perhaps she is for that many times new coloration does not come comprised the job made behind the creation of one and is for that people many times do not understand “the high” price of some animals….

salutes
alemoz

if you want to see more google, alemoz,alemoz2,and silkback you will see the same fury in his own country. so please don't try to say just a few are troublemakers, as the outrage is worldwide. whenever it gets close to finding the truth about inbreeding silkbacks, someone has a knack for disappearing.

Jack

Jack, I ask again...what does this exactly say in english..
Hi Jean,To me that translates out in english is I dont care about the breed, just money. as with the other reptile forums when the heat was on it was admitted that inbreeding is responsible for producing the mutant. google silkback and it will lead you to discussions that occurred in the recent months. would you care to defend this statement?

Allesandro Quote from Fauna:

Ok i will try to make it as clear as possible

the first thing i will say is that the whole history was described to really important breeder and seeing the result they sayd there is no doubt is a codominant gene

now....
Two normal animal are bred and one was different (first generation). I took the first animal (the female) and crossed with one normal unrelated male. I produced the second generation. I grow up all the babies (11 babies), I have splitted in two group, yellow (4) and red (7). Now the story should be divided in 2 section
First section. The 2 of the yellow (2 were not ready) and 4 of the red line (1 was not ready) were bred each with a coloured animal (yellow leath to yellow, red leath to red) unrelated. I produced the third generation (two lines). I have kept most of the red produced and this year I crossed the one who was able to breed to new unrelated animals. This is the fourth generation
Second section: The two red remaining I bred them together with the aim to test and find out the super form. I hatched 5 silkback
Is that not an admission of inbreeding?

Jack
 
Old 06-24-2007, 07:56 PM   #28
puppytoes72
BINGO!it sure is jack! my question is, where is vicki (dachiu) to defend her "project"?
 
Old 06-24-2007, 07:59 PM   #29
mikey
How else would you prove them out?

''i have tested the genetic of silkback in the third generation of leatherback."" . but I can add more, silkback is not a mutation over another mutation. But it is the super form of a codominant gene. And this year I proved it out because I have bred my silkback male on a normal female (unrelated) and it gave me all the babies being leath. And this is the last confirmation you could have. I suppose you may need some info on genetic and I suggest you to read the chapter in the N.E.R.D. site.''
 
Old 06-24-2007, 08:04 PM   #30
puppytoes72
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey
How else would you prove them out?

''i have tested the genetic of silkback in the third generation of leatherback."" . but I can add more, silkback is not a mutation over another mutation. But it is the super form of a codominant gene. And this year I proved it out because I have bred my silkback male on a normal female (unrelated) and it gave me all the babies being leath. And this is the last confirmation you could have. I suppose you may need some info on genetic and I suggest you to read the chapter in the N.E.R.D. site.''
and your point is?? they still came from inbreeding
 

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