Inbreeding

BUT why inbreed in close relation on purpose?

To reproduce a new color or pattern morph.

Just for the record, You sound like a PETA nut job.

It's just sad that you are resorting to calling names. I'm not a PETA nut job. I don't believe in the lengths they go to preserve animal life but I do believe that I'm not overzealous in my belief that crossing a momma to her son or a daddy to his daughter or a brother to his sissy, is wrong. And if this is the way you do business.....btw, when you sell a snake do you tell them that this snakes brother is also the father? People accept that? Wow!!! I guess I am naive!!!
Do you also pump 'em up on steroids to make them bigger? I mean, if mating a brother to his sister is nothing, what else do you do? Where do you draw your moral line???

None of us are fooling ourselves here, but we don't see the necessity in creating this mutation. And we're difinitely not naive....the reason for this creation has something to do with money. When you're talking about an animal...changing it for capital gain....well, in my eyes you can't get any lower.

The reason for the mass producing of any reptile has to do with money. Whether it is a new morph or not. That's just the reality of the reptile trade.

I am of the opinion that as long as the scaleless beardies do well/thrive under captive conditions then there is no reason why they should not be bred.

Originally Posted by KelliH

To reproduce a new color or pattern morph.

exactly,and to produce a scaleless dragon.its wrong,plain and simple.just because it was done in the past to get new color morphs does not mean it should still be done.thankfully the buyer is becoming aware of exactly how it is done and will probably walk away and not support these actions

Originally Posted by KelliH

To reproduce a new color or pattern morph.

And why produce a new color or pattern morph? For our amusement, right? Our desires, right? What about them? What about what they are physically feeling now or ten years down the road?
It all boils down to what we want. And what we want, by God, we get.
This is sickening.

Originally Posted by KelliH

The reason for the mass producing of any reptile has to do with money. Whether it is a new morph or not. That's just the reality of the reptile trade.

I am of the opinion that as long as the scaleless beardies do well/thrive under captive conditions then there is no reason why they should not be bred.

but why risk the health of these beardies by even trying it? we all know the risks of inbreeding

It's just sad that you are resorting to calling names. I'm not a PETA nut job. I don't believe in the lengths they go to preserve animal life but I do believe that I'm not overzealous in my belief that crossing a momma to her son or a daddy to his daughter or a brother to his sissy, is wrong. And if this is the way you do business.....btw, when you sell a snake do you tell them that this snakes brother is also the father? People accept that? Wow!!! I guess I am naive!!!

Well, he's right, you do sound quite Petaesque. Your views on inbreeding can be applied to probably 90% of the reptile breeders that frequent this very website, if not more, and virtually all of the larger scale reptile breeders. I respect your opinion, but I respectfully disagree with a lot of what you are saying, which I believe comes from inexperience in the subject of herpetoculture, and an overall lack of knowledge regarding reptile biology and natural history.

exactly,and to produce a scaleless dragon.its wrong,plain and simple.just because it was done in the past to get new color morphs does not mean it should still be done.thankfully the buyer is becoming aware of exactly how it is done and will probably walk away and not support these actions

Why exactly is it wrong? What evidence do you have that these animals do not fare well in captivity?

And why produce a new color or pattern morph? For our amusement, right? Our desires, right? What about them? What about what they are physically feeling now or ten years down the road?

Well, yes, I suppose in a way it is our amusements and/or desires. For me personally it is also my fascination with genetics and the joy I get from working with herps. May I ask you something? Why do you keep reptiles?

but why risk the health of these beardies by even trying it? we all know the risks of inbreeding

There are always risks when you are breeding reptiles, especially on a larger scale. There will always be deformities, dead in egg, breeders that die, I'm sorry but that is a reality, whether you are inbreeding or not.

I am not saying I think it is a good idea to inbreed and inbreed your animals year after year after year. In fact I am a huge believer in outcrossing.

Originally Posted by KelliH

Well, he's right, you do sound quite Petaesque. Your views on inbreeding can be applied to probably 90% of the reptile breeders that frequent this very website, if not more, and virtually all of the larger scale reptile breeders. I respect your opinion, but I respectfully disagree with a lot of what you are saying, which I believe comes from inexperience in the subject of herpetoculture, and an overall lack of knowledge regarding reptile biology and natural history.

Wow, you assumed all of that about me from one stance I have taken. No, from all I've read about PETA, I'm playing nice.
As for 90% of the reptile breeders out there that are engaging in inbreeding, then they have to live with that.
I've never been a breeder of reptiles but pure German Shepherds and Rottweilers, I have. And NO WAY did I even think of breeding related animals. NO matter how much it cost me to have an unrelated animal flown to me from Germany in order to acheive pure blood lines. Maybe because they are less of a disposable pet, then what alot of people think of reptiles. Maybe it's because in the dog world this conversation would be ran off of the boards.


I stand by my beliefs...this is sad. Purposely creating a mutation that is minus their scales is dead wrong....you believe it's alright...I hope Karma is a little kind to you.

Originally Posted by KelliH

Well, he's right, you do sound quite Petaesque. Your views on inbreeding can be applied to probably 90% of the reptile breeders that frequent this very website, if not more, and virtually all of the larger scale reptile breeders. I respect your opinion, but I respectfully disagree with a lot of what you are saying, which I believe comes from inexperience in the subject of herpetoculture, and an overall lack of knowledge regarding reptile biology and natural history.

"90% of the breeders that frequent THIS site" i think this is the problem sherri,we are stepping on too many toes here,that's why dennis insulted you.did he get any points for that? i got points earlier for saying " a** " but im curious..would i get points for saying " kiss my dennis " ? im really only just using an emoticon provided to me by fauna.