Briar Patch Herps RIP OFF!!! BEWARE!!

A very reputable green tree python breeder contacted me today and emailed me a picture of my own '01 John Mack Hi Yellow Female Green Tree Python that Briar Patch Herps was attempting to pass off as the sire to what were described as J Mack Hi Yellow chondros on they were selling on Kingsnake.com.

When asked questions about the animals, Briarpatchherps responded with a photo of a Hi Yellow chondro. To the breeders surprise as well as mine, it was a picture of my snake that I posted on Kingsnake.com in April of this year when I was attempting to sell her. Briarpatchherps actually offered to trade me some ball pythons for it!!

Here is the original email from Briarpatchherps to me offering ball pythons for it.

"----- Original Message -----
From: <briarpatchherps@aol.com>
To: <keithhamlin@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 5:50 PM
Subject: Message about: '01 J MACK Hi Yellow Female

> Any interest in trading for some nice baby ball python varients? Reduced
patterns, granites, labyrinths, black backs, jungles $35-$70 animals
>
> Wm
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> Click on (or cut and paste into you browser's
> location window) the URL below to view the ad that
> this message is in response to.
>
> http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?de=211418&cat=33
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------"

Please beware with this organization as it is definitely not legitimate and is certainly misrepresenting the animals it is selling.
The original email trail between the breeder and briarpatchherps is also in my possession. If nothing else this type of misleading activity just proves the point to go with a reputable breeder of the species you seek vice some reptile peddler. It also hurts those legitimate reptile dealers when something like this happens. Amazing. Guy can't make a buck honestly so he has to commit fraud and steal from honest hard working people. Makes you wonder how many people may have bought Hets from him that may have been truly normals?!?


Thank you,

Keith M. Hamlin
keithhamlin@cox.net

Hi Kieth,
Just to let you know, he offered me that chondro for a trade. I will look for the pic that he sent me in the email

did you contact him in regards to the using of your photographs?
because it could all be just an accident.

I don't know his story.
But I myself have pictures in my computer of other peoples snakes. It is part of my screen saver. When I want a snake theme I just tell my computer to go and get them out of the snake folder where all the pics are. But only when I want a snake theme. Let's not talk about when I want another theme

anyway you might want to contact him about it

The person who reported this to me had contacted him regarding the animal in the pic and he did see it. That was when he explained it was the sire.

I also contacted briar patch herps regarding the use of my photo. I have not yet received a reply. To many things don't add up for it to be an accident. We are not talking $50 ball pythons here.

I agree with your philosophy of always giving the benefit of the doubt.

Keith Hamlin

Subj: Re: chondros_
Date: 7/11/2004 7:16:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: BriarPatch Herps
To: MRico79

______
The photos I sent you of the "Sire & Dam" were supplied to me by the breeder of these animals, Karen Waters from Indianpolis stating they were her breeders from John. She had documentation from "Reptiles by Mack" and had a nice display set up with who I assume was her husband so there was no reason to doubt her, this was the Midwest breeders show in 2002 . When I decided to go a different direction on projects I got back with Karen looking for supportive lineage info and that's the photos she sent me.

______ Any information you can supply as to whose they are would be helpful....I'll check with her and Mack next to get the full story.

Thanks chief,
Wm

Subj: Attn: Karen Waters_
Date: 5/18/2004 3:19:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: BriarPatch Herps
To: troubled_waterss@yahoo.com


______ ____ Mrs. Waters,

I've recently decided to sell a young pair of green tree pythons I recieved from you in August of 2002 at Brian Hahns Expo. If you could supply me with the pedigree information on these animals it would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
William Horn

Subj: Re: Attn: Karen Waters_
Date: 5/23/2004 11:49:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: troubled_waterss@yahoo.com
To: BriarPatchHerps@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)


BriarPatchHerps@aol.com wrote:


______ ____ Mrs. Waters,

I've recently decided to sell a young pair of green tree pythons I recieved from you in August of 2002 at Brian Hahns Expo. If you could supply me with the pedigree information on these animals it would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
William Horn



Hello William. Here are the animal images you asked for. The olive green animal is the producing yellow biak female and the brighter grass green animal is the yellow_mack male. -K.Waters


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Subj: High yellow line_
Date: 7/11/2004 7:26:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: BriarPatch Herps
To: mackiii@ameritech.net
File: F28-37H01.ZIP (195344 bytes) DL Time (49333 bps): < 1 minute


______ John,

____________ I picked up a pair of animals in 2002 that were sold to me as being from your high yellow line from a Karen Waters Indianpolis, Indiana. She had purchased her breeders from you as yearlings so it would have been roughly a minimum of six years ago. Does the name ring a bell or do you have any other info? I'm sending photos of the animals she labeled as her sire & dam, take a look and see if either look familiar.

Thanks,
Wm

Subj: John Mack High yellow Green trees._
Date: 7/11/2004 7:36:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: BriarPatch Herps
To: Troubled_Waterss@yahoo.com


______ Karen,

____________ Did you send me the correct breeder information on the Sire & Dam from Macks high yellow line that produced the 0.0.2 I purchased in 2002? I picked them up at the Midwest Breeders show in Indianapolis and requested the info from you earlier this year, get back to me ASAP please.

Wm



**I haven't heard back from Karen Waters or John Mack yet ** but did find the previous correspondence.

There are already a few threads started where patches accidently tried to sell normal balls as proven morphs too. Its funny to see him up her again, and now hes using others photos......NICE.

Another trajic pic problem, eh Bill?

I have read the reply from Briar Patch Herps. Honestly, I do not believe him but that is my personal opinion.

As a professional businessman he should not put out animals for sale that he does not have 100% visibility on. If you don't know for sure that the animals are Hi Yellow...for instance does this Karen Waters normally deal with these animals? I can tell you I have never heard of her on Chondroweb or the Morelia Viridis forum.

I would be interested to know her asking price for the "Hi Yellow" animals. Anyway, it was his responsibility to ensure the animals were what he advertised them to be. If they are not, yes it is your credibility that is at stake. You can bring the other individual down with you but, you will lose customers regardless.

Keith Hamlin
keithhamlin@cox.net

Subj: Re: John Mack High yellow Green trees_
Date: 7/12/2004 7:36:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: troubled_waterss@yahoo.com
To: BriarPatchHerps@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)



truth is william I lost the male last year while on vaccation. my nephew was house sitting and caring for the animals-he fed them one day and the male died the following evening._a very expensive loss to say the least, I was disgusted! the photo of the male I sent you is from the same bloodline but he is not my animal. I rushed to reply and sent you what I had instead of dragging all of this out-please understand. -K. Waters

BriarPatchHerps@aol.com wrote:
__
______ Karen,

____________ Did you send me the correct breeder information on the Sire & Dam from Macks high yellow line that produced the 0.0.2 I purchased in 2002? I picked them up at the Midwest Breeders show in Indianapolis and requested the info from you earlier this year, get back to me ASAP please.

Wm



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**Mack still hasn't replied to verify who this lady is**

He doesnt need your business, and has nothing to prove. If you dont like the fact that he misrepresents animals, then dont buy from him! After all, we have nothing better to do than try to make him out to be the bad guy.

Does this all sound familliar? Yes, it does! It is Bill's defense when he gets called on stuff like this.

Isnt it, Bill?

Subj:
Date: 7/18/2004 5:11:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: troubled_waterss@yahoo.com
To: briarpatchherps@aol.com
File: 0206-0214-18902.xls (16896 bytes) DL Time (48000 bps): < 1 minute
Sent from the Internet (Details)




William-i found the disc the pedigree was on and have added it to this email let me know if it doesnt come through. im not sure if i did it right or not. -K. Waters


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