TURTLE EXTREME? Fly Rivers

Anyone know anything about an advertisser on KS going by "TURTLE EXTREME"? Advertising small Fly Rivers, 2.5" that have been in captivity 6 months does that sound right?

Just pray when you order them that they are not actually Fed Extreme - proprieter Sgt. Slaughter.

I would be very careful about buying any fly river turtles! You might want to check with USF&W to see what the legalities of them are because I don't think there are any small legal ones around.

Originally Posted by Ghi Reptiles

I would be very careful about buying any fly river turtles! You might want to check with USF&W to see what the legalities of them are because I don't think there are any small legal ones around.

Last I knew they were CITES II. Once a CITES II animal is in the country there are no restrictions on buying and selling. Importing CITES II (I and III for that matter as well) works like this: I am an American, I want to import a CITES II animal from Brazil. What I do is arrange the purchase through my out of country exporter first. I then apply for CITES paperwork for that specific purchase from the US gov't, it will arrive in about 2-4 weeks. Then after I get my paperwork the shipment goes through and I claim my shipment at the airport......getting it requires furnishing that paperwork and getting it inspected by US Fish and Wildlife. Once the initial mumbo jumbo with customs is settled free trade is allowed in the US and across state lines with no additional paperwork required. Now if they were smuggled in it really wouldn't matter to you since once you have them no one is going to ask you to furnish the paperwork. Of course from a moral point of view you may want to know that they were legally aquired for your own peice of mind. Might be hard to get the paperwork on them though since the dealer is likely not the importer, he probably got them from a wholesaler up the line.

There is a catch to that Richard....last year USF&W was going around to people that were buying fly rivers from importers and they were confiscating them. So they can take them...

Originally Posted by Ghi Reptiles

There is a catch to that Richard....last year USF&W was going around to people that were buying fly rivers from importers and they were confiscating them. So they can take them...

Well that sucks, especially to those that thought they purchased something legally. That's a change in procedure to them, they don't do that very often. More often they go after the importers. I'll have to talk to my contact over at USF&W and see what I can find out about the issue.

Originally Posted by DragonCharm

Last I knew they were CITES II. Once a CITES II animal is in the country there are no restrictions on buying and selling. Importing CITES II (I and III for that matter as well) works like this: I am an American, I want to import a CITES II animal from Brazil. What I do is arrange the purchase through my out of country exporter first. I then apply for CITES paperwork for that specific purchase from the US gov't, it will arrive in about 2-4 weeks. Then after I get my paperwork the shipment goes through and I claim my shipment at the airport......getting it requires furnishing that paperwork and getting it inspected by US Fish and Wildlife. Once the initial mumbo jumbo with customs is settled free trade is allowed in the US and across state lines with no additional paperwork required. Now if they were smuggled in it really wouldn't matter to you since once you have them no one is going to ask you to furnish the paperwork. Of course from a moral point of view you may want to know that they were legally aquired for your own peice of mind. Might be hard to get the paperwork on them though since the dealer is likely not the importer, he probably got them from a wholesaler up the line.

Actually this is incorrect, Richard. CITES II requires no advance permit to receive. It is the exporter who needs a permit from his government. If the animals are for personal use then no license is even required, just a 3-177 (http://www.le.fws.gov/pdffiles/3-177-1.pdf) completed for USFWS. If you plan to do it regularly then you would need an import/export license but that is not hard to obtain (http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-3.pdf). Once the CITES paperwork is completed by the shipper you need a bill of sale and your 3-177, and it needs to come in through an approved airport where they actually do inspections. You can call USFWS law enforcement (www.le.fws.gov) and schedule the inspection. They generally require 24 hours notice. After the inspection you go to customs and then back to the air freight cargo to pick up your animal(s).

As for CITES I, that is a different story, and I doubt that anyone who is not a bona fide zoo or researcher can get an import permit for any such animal.

Originally Posted by Jim O

Actually this is incorrect, Richard. CITES II requires no advance permit to receive. It is the exporter who needs a permit from his government. If the animals are for personal use then no license is even required, just a 3-177 (http://www.le.fws.gov/pdffiles/3-177-1.pdf) completed for USFWS. If you plan to do it regularly then you would need an import/export license but that is not hard to obtain (http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-3.pdf). Once the CITES paperwork is completed by the shipper you need a bill of sale and your 3-177, and it needs to come in through an approved airport where they actually do inspections. You can call USFWS law enforcement (www.le.fws.gov) and schedule the inspection. They generally require 24 hours notice. After the inspection you go to customs and then back to the air freight cargo to pick up your animal(s).

As for CITES I, that is a different story, and I doubt that anyone who is not a bona fide zoo or researcher can get an import permit for any such animal.

Looks like may be right, from what I understand of this the exporter has to get a permit to export and those papers must accompany the animal when it arrives here: http://international.fws.gov/pdf/app...ainableuse.pdf

More info on CITES in general: http://international.fws.gov/pdf/CITESfall01.pdf

More USF&W fact sheets: http://international.fws.gov/facts/factshet.html

I'm currently looking for more info and will post as I find it.

Originally Posted by DragonCharm

Looks like may be right, from what I understand of this the exporter has to get a permit to export and those papers must accompany the animal when it arrives here: http://international.fws.gov/pdf/app...ainableuse.pdf

More info on CITES in general: http://international.fws.gov/pdf/CITESfall01.pdf

More USF&W fact sheets: http://international.fws.gov/facts/factshet.html

I'm currently looking for more info and will post as I find it.

What you said was

Originally Posted by DragonCharm

I am an American, I want to import a CITES II animal from Brazil. What I do is arrange the purchase through my out of country exporter first. I then apply for CITES paperwork for that specific purchase from the US gov't, it will arrive in about 2-4 weeks. Then after I get my paperwork the shipment goes through and I claim my shipment at the airport

My point was that you do not need CITES paperwork from the US government, the exporter needs it from his. Seeing as how I recently imported CITES II animals from a European breeder I can tell you that this is the case. I have read most everything on that site that pertains to CITES II live reptile importation and dealt directly with the Baltimore office of USFWS law enforcement about this on several occasions (sadly BWI was the nearest approved entry point for me). I had a copy of the CITES paperwork from Netherlands and a copy of the bill of sale. Originals were sent with the animals and taken by the Inspector. The only paperwork that I produced was the 3-177. There was no CITES issued by the US government.

I had my steps screwed up, you're right. I remembered it wrong from what I'd been told. Haven't had to import anything myself yet.