Baltazaar2010 / Albert Bazaar took payment and never shipped animals

Originally Posted by jusmebabee

Personally I'm not giving you 4 weeks to give my money back. I'm contacting my CCC or whatever my payment method was.

I agree with Joel, start the process. Note that in most of the processes involving payment systems there is always a few days before the hammer falls where the other party can fulfill his obligations and pay up and there will be no penalty.

"Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."

Snake Queen if Albert went to collect the animals to fill the order and still intends to ship the animals does that make him a thief even though he has not had time to complete the transaction? I never saw anything in writing from Albert saying he would refund Marks $$, only that he did not have what Mark wanted and was going to collect and that based on freezing temps was having difficulty doing so, he also mentioned seeing Mark had filed a claim after he had gone on the road to collect the animals and based on losing his phone had difficulty contacting Mark. You say he is a thief because he did not ship animals, would it have been better for Albert to ship 6.0 to Mark instead of attempting to come up with the 2.4 he requested?
Since Albert never sent Mark anything I am sure paypal will side with him and he will get a refund but anyone buying animals in the middle of winter better realize that delays may occur.

Originally Posted by markpulawski

anyone buying animals in the middle of winter better realize that delays may occur.

Anyone selling animals in the middle of winter should realize that as well. These days everyone has a cell phone, one can borrow one or buy one without much trouble. Had there been better communication things might have been different. Then again, considering the tenor of the seller....

Originally Posted by Lucille

Anyone selling animals in the middle of winter should realize that as well. These days everyone has a cell phone, one can borrow one or buy one without much trouble. Had there been better communication things might have been different. Then again, considering the tenor of the seller....

I agree completely, as for the tenor of the seller, Dale Carnegie he is not, probably crabby from diving in the 40 degree water trying to find those turtles.

Originally Posted by markpulawski

I agree completely, as for the tenor of the seller, Dale Carnegie he is not, probably crabby from diving in the 40 degree water trying to find those turtles.

Why not just say, "I do not have the sex you requested like I thought, I've refunded your money."? Who collects turtles in the winter?

Originally Posted by markpulawski

Snake Queen if Albert went to collect the animals to fill the order and still intends to ship the animals does that make him a thief even though he has not had time to complete the transaction? I never saw anything in writing from Albert saying he would refund Marks $$, only that he did not have what Mark wanted and was going to collect and that based on freezing temps was having difficulty doing so, he also mentioned seeing Mark had filed a claim after he had gone on the road to collect the animals and based on losing his phone had difficulty contacting Mark. You say he is a thief because he did not ship animals, would it have been better for Albert to ship 6.0 to Mark instead of attempting to come up with the 2.4 he requested?
Since Albert never sent Mark anything I am sure paypal will side with him and he will get a refund but anyone buying animals in the middle of winter better realize that delays may occur.

what would have been best is not taking the customer's money if he did not have the products the customer was paying for, end of story. he should have checked on that before accepting any payment.

What I read time and time again on this board is the difference in thinking between the
reptile wholesaler/collector and the retail customer. A retail customer thinks, I ordered something paid for it and it should arrive tomorrow. (Something like how Amazon operates). The wholesaler knows, this is a live animal. Delays because of weather, availability, a delayed incoming import shipment, etc are all par for the course and should be tolerated by the buyer. This is not an iphone bought on amazon.
There is quite a disconnect between the two parties and way of thinking. Additionally a retail customer expects that since this is a living thing and is going to be a pet many times the expectation exceeds reality. Color, length, age, etc may not match expectations.
There are some companies out there that are trying to sell animals like Amazon sells products. Online ordering, and fast shipping. Im impressed with how far some companies have come in their attempt to succeed but, it will never be a seamless process.
I know Al and, you have to kind of understand his thinking and humor. He is a unique guy and has an old school attitude towards the business. I certainly understand the OP's frustration in this situation and after four weeks of waiting he deserves a refund if he wants one. period! Under any circumstance he has waited long enough. I am not saying the retail customer's thinking is wrong or right or the wholesalers. I am simply stating that most issues are caused because of the different ways of thinking

Dan & Mark,

I am afraid there has been a misunderstanding.
This is not a disconnect between a retail customer's expectations, and wholesaler's terms of having to collect the animals.

He stated the animals were in his possession and were to be shipped out upon receiving payment. I paid for the animals, and then was given a series of excuses why they were not shipped. This went on for more than a month.

Dec 11th I paid for the animals with expectations the animals would ship on the 13 (see attached).
Dec 13 comes and the animals did not ship, he said he had food poisoning.
Dec 18th (The week of) he said (by phone) it was too cold to ship.
Dec 27th he said he didn't have females in his stock tanks for sale, but said in the 3rd email that he pulled them from his pools (his personal breeding stock per a phone conversation)!
Dec 31 was the first time I heard he had to collect the animals I had already paid for. I was never given an exact reason why he couldn't ship the animals he claimed to have pulled from his pools on the 27th. Maybe having to do with the cold weather there, but what would you make think you would have better luck collecting from the wild when it's this cold?
I waited 12 more days before requesting a refund on January 11th (by phone) which he agreed to. He then ignored me, insulted me in the email, and tried to intimidate me by saying he would see me at the reptile shows.

I have been in and around this business for more than 20 years now and I understand delays happen, but this was different and way to excessive. As time went on it just became more and more apparent that he indeed did NOT have the animals he promised me.

I am glad everyone did not have to go through what I did. Had Albert taken 2 minutes to login to PayPal and click refund we would not be having this discussion. However; he did not and I had to go through PayPal to get my refund.

I thought others should know what I went through.

Thanks to everyone who posted (please take a moment to view the attached images and line them up with timeline above in the message to confirm what I have said).

Yeah this has nothing to do with any kind of disconnect... The seller just blatantly lied about what he had available and took the buyer's money for animals that did not exist.

Mark I am glad you got your money back, reading his posts it seems there is something missing about pulling the females from his ponds, is this all of the correspondence between you 2, it just seems like there should be more. I never condone threats, I can imagine that was a knee jerk reaction to your BOI post and when some one makes a living off of selling animals a thread like this could certainly effect that ability. Any chance you could post your entire conversation thread?