Cody Snider - varez111107@yahoo.com - TERRIBLE!

Sorry? I couldnt remember where he said he was from when I was writing... Would like me to post his address for Gods sake?... geez

For the record he's from Commerce Township, MI. (after looking at the box)

I didnt think a detail like that was really that big a deal....

I dont remember people here being that critical.... Then again I havent been on the BOI for a while....

Relax Paul, That sentence just sort of "stuck out" for me.
Happy New Year.
Randal

No problem really, just sounded a bit accusing, as if Im just making it all up.

Same to you by the way, Happy new year.

Originally Posted by John E Dove

Could you post some of the emails from both side. Especially those concerning the shipping and animals condition.

Heres the respose I got today...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:55:22 -0800
From: varez111107@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: Message about: Baby Smooth Front Caiman $179.00 SHIPPED OVERNIGHT
To: pmkent1@hotmail.com

"to be honest thats how i have always shipped and never had a problem, im not a guy of 150 bucks man, i understand the problem if the caiman is not alive i offer 7 day live arrival. i just sent a tegu 3 foot female to montana and it got there just fine, so this is a bit weird to me. let me know, and like i said, that was my last reptile, i have no more for sale as i had to part with what i had because i am going through a divorce and i just got a new place. if he does not make it i am happy to refund you 100%!"

Here is my response...(sorry if it sounds a bit emotional but Im really ticked)

"As much as I respect the offer of a 7 day live arrival, that doesnt exuse what you did. Sure it got here, but hours from death from freezing. You've always shipped for a 2-3 day delivery without any insulation in winter and no one has ever had a problem? Are you kidding me? Can I have the email addresses of these so called people? I'd like to ask them... Look around kingsnake, Fauna, or any other reptile classifieds, EVERYONE ships overnight. And you yourself TOLD ME you were shipping overnight! I would have told you to kick rocks if you said you were shipping 3days. Thats ridiculous. If thats the case, you have absolutely no reguard for the health of your animals if you actually ship that way. Do you realize its 20 degrees outside (5 degrees at night)? What reptile do you expect to live 3 days in that kind of temperature? You cant be serious......"

Did he even warn you that he was shipping through USPS?
After seeing that box I don't know I would want him shipping an old rock to me.
Also have you notified him of this thread.

Originally Posted by John E Dove

After seeing that box I don't know I would want him shipping an old rock to me.

No kidding, I've had a lot of things shipped to me and never (even from the regular joes has it been quite like that.

As far as notification, Im waiting on a response from him. Ill be glad to let him know of this as soon as I hear back from him. To be honest, even if he tries to make good on it, I think its still necessary to post a thread like this. I cant imagine puting a live reptile in a position like this one. Im sure there have been cases that are worse but I think this one is certainly note worthy.

Do you have it in writing, in other words, email, paypal receipt, copy of the ad, what you were charged for shipping? If so, then it can prove that you were ripped off by paying for overnight shipping if what you paid was more than the $5.70 that is shown on the USPS shipping label. If you paid for overnight shipping, which usually runs $40-50, then that means he's pocketing the difference which amounts to quite a chunk of change. This in itself is dubious regardless of the horrid manner in which he shipped the caiman.

However, your claim that what he did is illegal by shipping it via USPS is wrong unless the specific guidelines are not met (being under 20 inches):
USPS: DMM 601 Mailability
"9.3.3 Small Cold-Blooded Animals

Small, harmless, cold-blooded animals (except snakes and turtles) that do not require food or water or attention during handling in the mail and that do not create sanitary problems or obnoxious odors are mailable (e.g., baby alligators and caimans not more than 20 inches long, bloodworms, earthworms, mealworms, salamanders, leeches, lizards, snails, and tadpoles). "

I also wonder what kind of heat pack it was that he used. Some of those heat packs can easily exceed temperatures that are lethal to reptiles. Considering how cheap he seemed to be in tossing everything else together, it wouldn't be difficult to assume the heat packs he is using are not meant for reptile shipping.

I sincerely hope the little caiman makes it. He's obviously in far better hands than where he came from. Good luck with him.

[quote=Rextiles;661636]However, your claim that what he did is illegal by shipping it via USPS is wrong unless the specific guidelines are not met (being under 20 inches):
USPS: DMM 601 Mailability
"9.3.3 Small Cold-Blooded Animals

Small, harmless, cold-blooded animals (except snakes and turtles) that do not require food or water or attention during handling in the mail and that do not create sanitary problems or obnoxious odors are mailable (e.g., baby alligators and caimans not more than 20 inches long, bloodworms, earthworms, mealworms, salamanders, leeches, lizards, snails, and tadpoles). " QUOTE]

Thats an interesting bit of information... I got in a bit of trouble a few years back for shipping a baby alligator via USPS (long before I knew any better). they must have changed rules... Well when I let him know about this post ill be sure to change gears on that position.

As far as proof of everything, I have all of that. Including a copy of the ad that states "179.99 shipped overnight" right in the title portion.

Thanks for the info and the compliments. Just in the last 2 hours or so its been slowly showing more and more signs of recovery. So far so good....

Originally Posted by herpman081

As far as proof of everything, I have all of that. Including a copy of the ad that states "179.99 shipped overnight" right in the title portion.

Just to satisfy my curiousity, did the ad just state "$179.99 shipped overnight" with no breakdown of price of animal and the actual shipping charges? Was what you paid $179.99 and no more? Since I have no idea what a smooth front baby caiman is actually worth, I took the time to look up the few ads I could find here on Fauna. It seems that the average cost, not including shipping, for a smooth front is roughly $200:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=123844
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ad.php?t=93937 (regardless that this guy is a scammer, no one questioned the price).

So, if you paid ~$180 and overnight shipping was to be included in that price, let's really lowball and say USPS overnight shipping is $30 (which I'm sure is much more), that would mean this caiman's value to only be $150. Does that sound like a proper price for such an animal? Like I said, I'm clueless about the value of these reptiles, but if the typical price of one is $200 not including shipping, then $180 including shipping right off the bat seems a bit hinky to me.

There's nothing wrong with getting a good deal on an animal, and I've recently seen ads for snakes that I paid several thousand for last year being sold at half that price this year by the same seller/breeder. So, to me especially, $50 doesn't seem like a lot of money, nor entirely suspicious, but even when I've paid over $4k for a snake, shipping was never ever included or expected.

Trust me, I'm not trying to badger you, just trying to understand the circumstances completely since there seems to be some strangeness surrounding all of this, especially considering that this sellers reputation is at risk. I'm not trying to defend him either, just trying to get all the facts in order so he can be judged fairly.

I hope you're able to pull the little caiman through.

People who ship live temp sensitive animals through priority mail should be chemically castrated.