High End Herps (Inquiry)

What you said is correct in that the game of reptile buying it always has been and always will be a "to each his own thing".
I am not the one buying the cross and you are intitled to your opinion but if a person buys an animal, be it reptilian or otherwise, that is a cross and they were notified by the seller/breeder of such and the animal is 3k then how are they being duped or missled?? Especally if it's a to each his own thing?

I am not trying to pick a fight but just trying to understand what you are saying.

HighEndHerps,

If you don’t have an answer to my last question maybe you can at least help me with this. You would definitely agree you guarantee of 4 months, and your “trade in policy” is very unique compared to others in the hobby right? Well, how come these post made by Brian Smith in 04 seem so similar to it? I won’t even bring up the fact you have very similar writing styles as well as view points in other post.
http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch...81914&key=2004
http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch...81914&key=2004


If you want to try and get this cleared up I would be very interested in hearing about any credible references you have before summer of last year. As you may or may not know Damon Heyman AKA Brian Smith was caught April 05 traveling through AZ with several illegal reptiles. He also had about 30 snakes. Which isn’t near as many as he use to claim he had, but is still a lot considering he told everyone he sold them all a year earlier. Here are a couple links to some news articles if you care to see them.
http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/4409/AZ/US/
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=39810


On your website you claim to have one of the biggest boid collections, but I have yet to find anyone that has heard of you before July/August last year. For such a big breeder, you really don’t seem to be selling very much, especially for this time of year. I only bring this up as Brian Smith was well known for misrepresenting his collection as being much greater than it really was.

Ben Rogers

Sorry I didn't respond quickly enough for you. I have not even been to this site in days and wasn't even aware you'd posted a question directed at me until a friend emailed me and brought it to my attention. I have been incredibly busy as of late.

Now, I don't know who you are, who Adrian is, or who this Brian Smith or Damon Smith is. Never did any business with any of you. For you to come here publicly and imply that I am somehow connected with any of them because of a picture of a similar or identical snake, is absurd. It goes beyond absurd.

We acquire snakes from all over the country all the time. Weekly. We built the bulk of our collection by buying other people's snakes and we get in new animals each and every week. [All are run through a lengthy quarantine in a seperate building] To say I am such and such because I have a snake that some guy posted a picture of THREE years ago is utterly ridiculous. By that same token, if I post pictures of some of my surinames then I must be Adam from Chicago. Or if I post pictures of a couple of my afrocks then I must be John from South Carolina. And I could go on and on and on.

This is so ridiculous I can't even believe I am addressing it. But it sure does explain why you kept getting my name wrong in all them different forums, lol. Heck man, I just thought you were a tad slow on the uptake. (no offense)

Anywhichway, for the record, I am in no way affiliated with anyone at all, be they them particular people or whomever. We don't have ANY partners and we don't do co-projects with anyone else. Now Ben, you seem to have a bug up your skirt for this Brian Smith for whatever reason. So be it. I don't know if maybe he scammed you or whatever happened with your dealings with him. I didn't go read the links y'all posted. Tawni browsed through them but said it was incredibly long and 'like a silly soap opera that never ended' [she has a way of putting things in perspective, lol]. Anywhichway,.. whatever happened between you and this other fella has nothing to do with us and our business and I would greatly appreciate it if you would stop trying to connect me with them. It ain't right and you're basing it all on one picture of a snake we bought from another [not that fella] and you never once even emailed me to ask me point blank, 'Hey, do you have anything to do with such and such'. Not even a single email to find out. No, instead you come here and imply I am in league with a scammer. It just ain't right.

Now, we have done nothing but good business since day one. We have many happy customers and have never lost a single snake to shipping or with customer. As far as my business and it's dealings go it will stand upon its own merit. Now, I don't care if you go around posting that I wear a dress as I clean cages, but do not ever post that I run a shady or dishonest business. I take a lot of pride in the way I run my business and it took a lot of hard work and genuine effort to get where I am.

I wish you all the best luck in recouping your losses with this other guy. I also wish you the best in your own breedings. You have some green/granites about to hatch soon don't you, and I think those are one of the most incredible mixes out there. Best of luck on them.

David Beauchemin

Sorry, I messed up on one of the links. This is the other one I meant to post.
http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch...67763&key=2004

Thanks for the long reply David, but you still haven't addressed any of the questions I asked you. How long have you had this snake in question? How long have you been around in this business? How come no one has heard of you before last summer? You don't think it's a big coincidence you have a very simular "trade in Policy" and guarentee, as well as an identicle snake? Also the timing of him moving that direction isn't much before you first seemed to pop up on the scene. What conclusion do you think people are going to draw from this? Especially if you won't even respond to these questions.

Ben Rogers

With HEH's unprecedented guarantees and the fact that they do trades, take back snakes and such, I would think they could answer a simple question of where a snake came from and from whom especially when that snake looks identical to one owned by Damon/Brian who vanished from the herp scene about a year before HEH shows up. Since their breeding collection is a "closed colony", I would think they'd keep careful records of who they got snakes from in case something happened.


And as Ben pointed out the policy "guarantees" are pretty much the same... odd for someone who likes to say their guarantees are like no other.

A Quoted comment of HEH from March 2006:

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1035160,1038282

"We also offer the industry's only 100% buy back, lifetime trade in policy. "

HEH's current policy as stated on their website http://highendherps.com/

Lifetime Trade-in Policy:

For those herpers that want the experience of keeping a retic, burm or rock python but dont want to end up with an enormous 200 pound pet, this is the policy for you. This is automatically inclusive in the purchase of any large snake species**. What this boils down to basically is that at any time during your experience with keeping any of our larger species (retic, rock, burmese, etc) if you feel your snake is too large for you to handle safely and or comfortably, you may trade it back in for a smaller snake of equal value*. This enables herpers that would otherwise avoid these graceful giants to enjoy the wonderful experience of keeping them without the burden of ever being "stuck" with a gentle, though potentially huge reptile. We developed this policy with the sole purpose that none of our offspring ever are abandoned, released or end up in shelters or rescues. The well-being of our snakes is our first and foremost priority. Please read the terms and conditions of the lifetime trade-in policy before you purchase a snake under these conditions.

BrianSmith's post from back in March 2004

http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch...81914&key=2004

"I also offer a 100% unconditional "trade in policy" on all offspring of the giant snake species. I tell my customers that if it should ever get to big that they can trade it back in for a smaller snake of equal current value, of any species. I have yet to have anyone bring anything back yet, but the offer is still always there. Perhaps instead of stating that private breeders know full well, etc etc,. you can say that "some breeders" don't care where their babies end up, etc etc.

Pricing similiarities

From one of BrianSmith's posts:
http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch...38703&key=2003

"But once my overhead is behind me I am lowering my prices in an incredible way and virtually everyone will be able to afford one of the once hard to get high end morphs (all with a 100% return policy, mind you)."

From HEH's website:

"Here at High End Herps we make it so that everyone that wants ANY reptile can get that reptile, regardless of how much it may cost or how much a person can afford."

so if you read the site further and then take into account HEH does credit value from trade ins, intrest free payment plans, etc... that does lower prices in an incredible way.


Brian was also known for posting about burm, rock, retics, hybrids, triples, etc. Pretty much the same stuff that HEH likes to post about on the forum.

http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch...81704&key=2004

Author: BrianSmith
Date: Tue Mar 9 15:21:01 2004
Subject: Beautiful, tame rock/burmese hybrid babies,...

I woke up this morning to yet another stunning ovulation. This time it is one of my green patternless rock females. She was bred in February with a double morph trait male burmese. So her babies will be 50%rock/50%burmese, 50% possible triple het for (classified). Both of the parents are dog tame and I expect that the babies will be extremely docile as well. I am so confident of this that I am offering a 100%, unconditional, guaranteed tame policy for every baby sold. I will reveal the hidden triple het traits to every buyer but will otherwise keep this very hush hush as it is part of a much bigger, multi-generational breeding project to produce triple morph hybrids.

I also have a female double morph burmese that bred with one of my male green patternless rock pythons in the same time period, but I have yet to see an obvious ovulation with her. It has only been about two weeks since she repeatedly bred with him and I am extremely confident that she is in fact gravid as she has gone off of feeding completely. Her babies will also be 50/50 rock burmese, triple het for the same morph traits, but otherwise unrelated. These are the counterpart, future breeders of the initial clutch, needless to say. I will be holding back 10 females and 2 males from each clutch, so females will be a little more scarce when all is said and done.

I am very excited about this project and will keep the forum mostly updated as this endeavor proceeds and the future triple morph hybrids unfold.
-----
Believe in yourself and your abilities and you can accomplish anything.

There just seems to be too many similiarities to brush off easy.


Adrian

You guys are like a tag team. LOL

Unfortunately, this will always be a he said/she said situation unless you can provide actual proof that Brian Smith & HEH are the same person. It is apparent you have a history with Brian Smith, however, this thread was an inquiry regarding High End Herps who have stated that there is no connection between them and any of the other individuals you have mentioned. Your questions have been asked and answered as they say. So I can't see where you can go from here unless you have something more concrete.

The original post was an inquiry on HEH and their business, animals and such NOT if they are this person or that person.

Please if you'd like to continue the "who are you really" bicker (or whatever it is) do it over email. As far as I am concerned your questions/concerns have been answered about who HEH is.

It's astonishing to me that a grown up would use a far-fetched conspiracy theory based soley on a three year old picture of something as rare and obscure as a het albino rock/burm hybrid (how many of those total do you suppose there are in this country?) to libel the integrity and business of a man that he's never met. Then to use that picture further as an errant platform for accusations about things such as the size of that person's snake collection, or a guarantee/ trade-in policy, or the manner in which someone types is simply irresponsible and nasty. Whatever axe you have to grind with this Damon or Brian or whoever he is has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that High End Herps may or may not own the same or similar snake as him. As far as a lifetime trade in policy or health guarantee, these are not new ideas that this Brian Smith conjured up so therefore he and David Beauchemin must be the same person. Lots of folks have that same policy. I have that same policy. The difference is that High End Herps has it detailed in plain english on the homepage of their website for all to see. How can you possibly chastise someone for having a sound and responsible policy as one of the first things you can read on their website? As far as this Brian fellow and David Beauchemin having a similar style of writing, they do not. The reason I can definitively say that is because of the several hundred multiple page emails that I have personally received from High End Herps giving me a pretty firm grasp on his vernacular. I've never heard or seen him use the phrase "dog tame" and he has the good sense to use the proper form of to, too, and two. None of this is anything that should need to be explained or corroborated as personal attacks as serious as this one simply should not be made unless you have conclusive proof of what you are accusing. About eight months ago a fellow named John posted pics of an adult female blood he recently acquired. About two months after that I bought that same snake from him. If I post pictures of her with eggs in a couple of years are you going to root through the Kingsnake archives so that you can "show" the world that I'm not who I say I am and defame my integrity and business based on absolutely nothing? I certainly hope not, and shame on you for having done that exact thing here. To re-answer the original poster's question... great animals from a great guy. You can certainly buy with confidence.

Hopefully the proof is in the pudding for it isn't in any of your posts. I haven't down business with them, but merely from the fact when I had inquired on a certain animal they let me know of certain restrictions based on the species and its regulation. Other large and well thought of breeders never mentioned this even when prompted. So they were out to make a sale, HEH was following the law.

David,

It just so happens at least two other snakes you have posted pictures of can also be identified in the Brian Smith photo gallery. For someone that has so many snakes I find it to be another big coincidence how the few older snakes you posted pictures of at least three of them can be identified as once belonging to Damon Heyman/Brian Smith. Let’s think about this for a second. If you have one of the largest collection of boids what are the odds that three of the snakes you happen to posted pics of can be proven to have once belonged to Brian Smith? It also appears these were in his possession shortly before you first appeared. I’m well aware that snakes do change hands often times. If this was the only thing that didn’t add up, I never would have posted. Fact is the timing of him moving east and the time you first showed up is another big coincidence. The fact that you advertise a near identical trade in policy, and guarantee as Brian Smith did is another big coincidence. The fact you and him have both publicly stated you want to keep and breed every python species and morph is a big coincidence.

For those of you that support David right now,

I first want to say I respect your view points, and you are free to come to your own conclusion about what has been posted. However, why don’t you seem to care how long he has been around? He presents him self as having one of the biggest collections of boids and yet there is no evidence out there that he even existed less than a year ago. Look at all the other big breeders out there. How many of them popped up over night? The two posts he has made here answered no questions directly, and yet that seemed to be enough for you guys to dismiss all this. How many big coincidences will it take before you can see that something isn’t adding up? He never answered those questions about the two threads disappearing from kingsnake that showed he had the same rockXburm female in what he claimed to be two different projects. Those threads David started were up long past the time my post questioning him got deleted. The moderators had no reason to delete those posts. The only reason I can see why they would is if the topic starter requested they be deleted, which I know the moderators will do.

Ben Rogers