Intense Herpetoculture - Any feedback?

May I post the pictures of the snakes you sent to me? There were three pics and there is no black one.

As for the bite, I didn't see anything resembling much of a bite and the symptoms you mentioned are not normal for an Echis bite. Also the "tests" you said you did on your own blood at home sent a few alarms off.
I'm not saying that is a fact that you did not get envenomated, but I have first hand experience (unfortunately) with a bite from an Echis and I have my doubts. I suppose we should stick to the facts though.

Originally Posted by Intense Herpetoculture

Also, I did send a pic of the slate black Atheris as well as several bite pics proving I was bitten by an Echis. I am guessing you forgot to leave those details from this post. As for proof, I provided pics, cell phone photos or not please tell me where on Earth I would have acquired those pictures or animals if I did not have them in my care?

I have had difficulties taking photos of venomous snakes recently as I now require my wife to be wife me WHENEVER I am working with venomous snakes, this is something both my wife and myself agreed on after I was bitten. She has been busy as of late with end of semester college papers, so has not been able to help me.

I am not screaming that I am a victim, I'm not that type of person. I will take care of this situtation in a matter which I have already described to Eric.

Posts away, or I can post them for you.

As for the photos of the bite, I'll post those now. As for the tests to see if my blood was having problems clotting, which would then be a major concern and warrent going to seek medical help as Iw oudl then need anti-venom. Here are the details of the test.

20 minute whole blood clotting test (20WBCT)
��Place a few ml of freshly sampled venous blood in a small glass vessel
��Leave undisturbed for 20 minutes at ambient temperature
��Tip the vessel once
��If the blood is still liquid (unclotted) and runs out, the patient has hypofibrinogenaemia (“incoagulable blood”) as a result of venominduced consumption coagulopathy
��In the Southeast Asian region, incoagulable blood is diagnostic of a viper bite and rules out an elapid bite
��Warning! If the vessel used for the test is not made of ordinary glass, or if it has been used before and cleaned with detergent, its wall may not stimulate clotting of the blood sample in the usual way and test will be invalid
��If there is any doubt, repeat the test in duplicate, including a “control” (blood from a healthy person)

You are more then welcome to do a quick "yahoo" search under "20 minute whole blood clotting test" to see how real and easy this field test is.

As for the pic, yes, there was a slate grey/black Atheris in the pics.

Originally Posted by erk2

May I post the pictures of the snakes you sent to me? There were three pics and there is no black one.

As for the bite, I didn't see anything resembling much of a bite and the symptoms you mentioned are not normal for an Echis bite. Also the "tests" you said you did on your own blood at home sent a few alarms off.
I'm not saying that is a fact that you did not get envenomated, but I have first hand experience (unfortunately) with a bite from an Echis and I have my doubts. I suppose we should stick to the facts though.

Not the best picture, but they show enough. It was taken 30 misn after the bite. You sent me you photo, and I hate to say, but your Echis bite looked the very same!

Here are the 3 pics of the squams I recieved....I ordered 6 black and 8 red.







and this was my Echis bite after leaving the hospital



and the culprit

Originally Posted by Intense Herpetoculture

Posts away, or I can post them for you.

As for the photos of the bite, I'll post those now. As for the tests to see if my blood was having problems clotting, which would then be a major concern and warrent going to seek medical help as Iw oudl then need anti-venom. Here are the details of the test.

20 minute whole blood clotting test (20WBCT)
􀂙Place a few ml of freshly sampled venous blood in a small glass vessel
􀂙Leave undisturbed for 20 minutes at ambient temperature
􀂙Tip the vessel once
􀂙If the blood is still liquid (unclotted) and runs out, the patient has hypofibrinogenaemia (“incoagulable blood”) as a result of venominduced consumption coagulopathy
􀂙In the Southeast Asian region, incoagulable blood is diagnostic of a viper bite and rules out an elapid bite
􀂙Warning! If the vessel used for the test is not made of ordinary glass, or if it has been used before and cleaned with detergent, its wall may not stimulate clotting of the blood sample in the usual way and test will be invalid
􀂙If there is any doubt, repeat the test in duplicate, including a “control” (blood from a healthy person)

You are more then welcome to do a quick "yahoo" search under "20 minute whole blood clotting test" to see how real and easy this field test is.

As for the pic, yes, there was a slate grey/black Atheris in the pics.

isn't 20 minutes a long time to have to wait for some results? justyn you aren't a doctor. plus responsible keeping of hots would involve proper protocol for snake bite, like the hospital. i mean in that amount of time (20 minutes) couldn't you have died if it was in fact an envenomation?

No, this species takes DAYS to kill it's victims. Look it up. Not to mention I've read several journals saying over 50% of bite victims do not need anti-venom and it recomended this test.

Originally Posted by robin s.

isn't 20 minutes a long time to have to wait for some results? justyn you aren't a doctor. plus responsible keeping of hots would involve proper protocol for snake bite, like the hospital. i mean in that amount of time (20 minutes) couldn't you have died if it was in fact an envenomation?

I've been interested in seeing how this whole thing is played out. I've not done any business with Intense Herptoculture because it all seemed to be too good to be true. However, I know more than one person who took the bait and have nothing to show for their deposit other than a mountain of Bull S***. Those fortunate enough to use a Credit Card have their $$ back and ended their frustrating attempted purchase of what could be imaginary serpents.

A few things about an Echis snake bite and the whole blood test. Echis kills more people on the planet than any other snake save the Russells viper. The envenoming rate for that genus is nearly 100%. Not going to the Hospital to have your blood properly evaluated really put you at siqnificant risk for several nasty problems. The 20 minute test is a FIELD test to see if the blood coagulates or is incoagulable but tells you nothing about what is really happening with your clotting mechanisms. It was developed for use in places where hospitals are far and few like Africa.

If you were really bitten, which I personally doubt since most of what you seem to say has no basis in reallity, you really took a big gamble with not only your own life but the health of the hobby in Texas. Just what the folks at PETA & ALF need to drive an additional nail in the private hot keeping coffin.

Al Coritz
Deadlybeautiful Zoological, LLC

Bite looks fairly similar to me, too bad I did not take the photo at the same angle. As for the Atheris, the last one is black. I did not send a photos of the reds as I don't think I unpacked them at the time (different shipment).

Originally Posted by erk2

Here are the 3 pics of the squams I recieved....I ordered 6 black and 8 red.







and this was my Echis bite after leaving the hospital



and the culprit

Too god to be true, what Atheris? The same species that was common as all heck a few years back? The only problem people have with getting them is getting them on the airline, most airlines in those countries will not ship venomous anymore. I have a supplier in the DRC that supplied me last year with animals from there (non venomous) and we found an airline that said yes to shipping venomous snakes.

As for the bite, read again, the only reason they are considered "the most dangerious" it because they are common and bitey. They do not pose a huge health risk to over 50% of bites. I monitored the bite and would have gone ot the hospital if needed. I did not feel like going through all the crap unless I needed too.

Tell me, if they are imaginary, where did those pics come from? Are those Atheris? Just how many black Atheris are in the USA, where would I get those snakes? Blacks are VERY rare because they are ONLY found in the CONGO.

Originally Posted by Phobos

I've been interested in seeing how this whole thing is played out. I've not done any business with Intense Herptoculture because it all seemed to be too good to be true. However, I know more than one person who took the bait and have nothing to show for their deposit other than a mountain of Bull S***. Those fortunate enough to use a Credit Card have their $$ back and ended their frustrating attempted purchase of what could be imaginary serpents.

A few things about an Echis snake bite and the whole blood test. Echis kills more people on the planet than any other snake save the Russells viper. The envenoming rate for that genus is nearly 100%. Not going to the Hospital to have your blood properly evaluated really put you at siqnificant risk for several nasty problems. The 20 minute test is a FIELD test to see if the blood coagulates or is incoagulable but tells you nothing about what is really happening with your clotting mechanisms. It was developed for use in places where hospitals are far and few like Africa.

If you were really bitten, which I personally doubt since most of what you seem to say has no basis in reallity, you really took a big gamble with not only your own life but the health of the hobby in Texas. Just what the folks at PETA & ALF need to drive an additional nail in the private hot keeping coffin.

Al Coritz
Deadlybeautiful Zoological, LLC

sorry but i am having to go with Al's info, stats and accounts.

one thing though justyn. if you got photos of the snakes with a cell phone, then why not with your canon? i mean either way you are in the room with the snakes.