kris harris (kwh74)

i just received in 2 phenomenal ball pythons from kris. they got here at 9am via ups.. which is the fastest i've seen ups yet. one is a large genetic stripe female and the other is a large mojave female. both seem to be very plump and healthy, mite free. very good transaction in my book. good packaging job to boot. i've bought an albino male from him in the past which was excellent as well. he's used me as a reference for people purchasing from him... and i've personally had no problems. i'm waiting to see how harald's (hhmoore) experience was, so i'm sure he'll chime in.

here are some quick pics of what i got in today. bad pictures and they don't like to stay still... but i hafta get back to work... so they'll do for now.

niiiiice....ima come kidnap that g-stripe from you Bradley =)

Originally Posted by bradleymoore

i'm waiting to see how harald's (hhmoore) experience was

My sense of propriety won't let me comment right now...I'll do it tomorrow, or the next day, depending on how things go.

Originally Posted by Willow

niiiiice....ima come kidnap that g-stripe from you Bradley =)

haha

Well, I got a response from Kris, so I guess it's fair for me to post my experience now.

I'll start out by stating that I don't consider Kris to be a Bad Guy, per se; but I will never do business with him again, nor will I recommend him to anybody. On to the explanation...

I submitted payment to Kris on 11/10/09. Shipping was delayed a few days - due to his local weather conditions - which I was fine with, and agreed to wait until this week. On Sunday, Kris PM'd me - stating that he would be shipping the next day; but that his friend with the FedEx account would be unable to do it, so he (Kris) would be using SYR/UPS. I responded that I would make the necessary arrangements (we had discussed shipping previously, and I had stated a strong preference for FedEx, as waiting for UPS conflicts with my schedule & I couldn't always guarantee someone being here to accept delivery).
Monday night, having not heard back from him, I sent Kris a PM asking for tracking info...and then, later, sent another one indicating that, without some indication that he had shipped, I didn't want to waste my morning waiting for a delivery.
Tuesday morning, I still had no confirmation from Kris (Brad Moore said Kris told him he shipped my snake)...Kris' account showed him as logged in and private messaging at a few minutes after 10, so I waited for news. 10:30 came, with no snake, so I PMd him asking what the story was. 11:00, the UPS truck drove by - so I fired off a quick message:

UPS truck just drove past my house, so I'm guessing you didn't ship - thanks for wasting my time. Please refund my money ASAP.

I exchanged a few quick PMs with Brad, then left the house...and saw the UPS truck down the street, and the driver walking back to the truck. When I passed the house, I noticed a large white box tucked behind a planter on the porch...sure enough - the snake. There was a brief conflict with that person's neighbor who accused me of stealing the box (easily resolved when he finally shut up long enough to look at the address label - but it still added to my mood). At this point, I planned on apologizing to Kris for my hasty response; but I had enough sense to open the package first.
It was a fairly large box, several times larger than necessary (in fact, I suspect I could fit my 20 lb female dumerils boa in it)...inside was a molded styrofoam container (so far so good). That container was loosely packed with crumpled paper - less secure than I would have packed it, but not horrible (the snake definitely got tossed around a bit, though, as the box was on its side on the porch). There were two heat packs - little things, I fit both of them side by side on a dollar bill with paper showing on both sides and in between (I have pictures to illustrate) - and they were totally dead. The snake was quite cold to the touch; and as I unpacked it, it seemed...smaller than expected. The snake was advertised at approx 700g, but weighed 546g out of the box (I have pictures on the scale, too). I guess one could argue that that IS approximately 700g, lol, but the snake is 22% smaller than advertised. Fairly significant, and definitely a factor in my consideration of the worth of the snake.

*I realize that I was overtired, and in a foul mood...and that it probably affected my responses somewhat*

I sent Kris this message:

Kris,
It's pretty sad that you were here and ignored my messages this morning, and couldn't even be bothered to contact me after Brad told you the snake didn't get delivered. While it was tempting to let things stew for a while, I don't play jerk around games like that - - - as I was leaving, I saw the UPS truck a few houses down...they had just left the snake on somebody else's porch. I have her, but that only leads to more problems. Those sorry excuses for heat packs you used were both dead, so she's VERY cold; AND she's a full 150g below the advertised weight. Since you are getting out of things, I'm sure you probably don't care; but I'm really unhappy about this. I wouldn't have bought her if you had posted her as 550g, at least not at that price. I'm going to sleep on this, because I don't like to make these decisions when I'm this far behind on sleep...but I'm seriously considering returning her for a refund.

I slept for a few hours (not nearly enough) and followed up with this message:

I'm still pretty upset, but at least better able to address the issues at hand.
1) The misdelivery - obviously not your fault (and I never blamed or criticized you for it)...UPS here sucks with live animal deliveries, thought (damned typo) they aren't quite as bad as DHL used to be. I should have stuck to my guns with insisting on FedEx.
2) No confirmation that you had shipped, or tracking number provided - That was just lazy and inconsiderate on your part. You were here this morning, private messaging, and ignored my requests for that information. Further, your negligence could easily have led to a worse outcome - if I had left a few minutes earlier, or later, I wouldn't have SEEN the UPS guy walking away from the white box tucked behind the planter on that porch. If I hadn't seen it, I would have just figured you hadn't shipped.
3) You call those heat packs? - those two little things weren't enough for that box, even if they had still been functioning. From the look of things, at least one was originally under the snake - I think the other was in the newspaper someplace, I didn't see it when I initially unpacked the box. They weren't functioning, though, and the snake was pretty cold...but, thankfully, the box didn't sit outside long. Wonder what the outcome would have been if it had sat outside all day, in front of the wrong house, because I couldn't even confirm that it had been shipped (let alone misdelivered).
4) inaccurate weight - you advertised her as 700g, she weighed in at 546g, when I unpacked her. Thats just over a 20% error. A 20% difference in weight certainly impacts my perception of her value...and, IF I had even inquired about her, I would not have paid the price I did.


It all adds up to me being pretty darned unhappy with this transaction. The pissed off part of me still wants to have you arrange to have her picked up and shipped back, for a full refund. Frankly, though, given the utter lack of communication since Sunday night, I wouldn't trust you to provide that once she was out of my hands. I also think it is probably not the best choice for the snake, considering how cold she got. So, assuming that it is, in fact, a female (which I will confirm tomorrow), I would rather not return her. I do, however, think that the situation merits a partial refund.

I'll be looking forward to your response

Brad told Kris I was unhappy, and had sent him messages here; and a short time later, I got this response:

Originally Posted by Kris Harris

sorry it was an estimate scale is broke, didnt have ur number so couldnt find out what was up i used address u gave me, as far as the other this is first time ive been at computer all day so have no idea what u mean by me pm early? im sorry for weight , an the heat packs r what they had in va an when i shipped it was 72 out here u never called so thats on u u had my number, i shipped an did it correctly im sorry u had bad experiance, u got a great female at 1230 after paypal an i paid shipping im am truly sorry ur not happy.

My response, which has gotten no reply:

You had my phone number - I provided it for shipping. No, I didn't call...I prefer to avoid the "he said/she said" and misinterpretations that go along with addressing things on the phone. I do business via email and PM...if I do call, I back up any pertinent info with an email. Besides, I don't call people after 9pm or before 10am unless I am specifically told it is ok to do so.
When I was online this morning, your account was active - when I clicked on your username, it showed you as private messaging. That was around 10am.

It sounds as if you don't agree that a partial refund is in order. She's 546g, you advertised her as 700g - would YOU be happy with that discrepency, if the situation was reversed? If you were pulling the weight out of your ass, you should have made it clear that you were guesstimating.
You're right, she's a nice looking snake...but not worth the same thing as one that is 22% bigger - at least not to me.
As far as the paypal fee, that's a part of doing business...you could always have said you wouldn't accept that payment method. And you're right, you paid shipping...because you offered her with shipping included. The fact that you might have paid too much for it was your own fault for using a box that was significantly larger than needed for the snake.

I might have made a bad decision by buying from you - but I can certainly help prevent others from doing the same. There are a few people waiting for me to tell them how my transaction with you went - rest assured, those are sales you won't make

*one other comment about the phone thing - I work nights, and was led to believe that Kris is currently doing the same. I WILL NOT, out of consideration, call a night shifter during the day if I don't know their sleep schedule. I hate telephones anyway, but people calling when I am getting what little sleep I can pi$$es me off.
I'll acknowledge that I could have called him at around 10am, when the system showed him as private messaging...but I figured he would respond to the messages I had sent him already, making the phone call unnecessary. After that, things took their own course, and I had no interest in speaking to him directly.

All in all, its a nice enough looking snake, and seems outwardly healthy - it's just smaller than advertised. The size difference doesn't have any real impact, except on my perception of the value of the snake - it's not like I was planning on breeding her in the next few months...but it will take longer to get her to size.
I will confirm the gender when I get home in the morning, then (as long as it is correct) I'll write off this transaction as a lesson learned.

Some will see my displeasure as justified...I'm sure some will deem it petty. I've relayed my experience - people can take from it what they will.
If the aforementioned pictures are desired, I can resize and post them when I get home in the morning. Now that I've burned up my lunch typing this, I've got to go back to work.

sorry for ur bad feelings hope u get over it. u could have avoided all this if you would have called me or texted like everyone else, i dont care what u think of me at all if u really care im sorry for that and thank you to all who have purchased from me in the past as im no longer able to keep up with the hobby, wish everyone well even you harold. thx kris

So you think its fair that Harald paid for a 700g snake and received one much smaller?

harald: you already know how i feel on the situation. i'm just glad you caught the box in time. when i found out the tracking number and looked it up, i saw it had been delivered to 'front porch' and had no way of contacting you since you weren't online. i tried msging rich, but he said he didn't have your number to txt you about it. i wish the final outcome would've been a little bit different, though i can only speak as to how i would've handled it.

*sigh* sad indeed...more so your response Kris...Harald had a right to be upset, and has acted cool and calm through it...the fact that you dont even show a slight care is just disrespectful...just a tad bit sad when someone leaving the hobby has litrally decided it just isnt worth have any decent moral values...your lucky Harald hasnt asked for a refund...but since you seem to not care where your reputation goes at this point, im glad that snake is in much bette hands....

Originally Posted by kwh74

u could have avoided all this if you would have called me or texted like everyone else

Originally Posted by bradleymoore

i tried msging rich, but he said he didn't have your number to txt you about it.

Very simply - as I stated above, I hate phones...as a general rule, I don't carry a cell phone, so texting is not an option

Kris, if I hadn't happened to see the misdelivered box, you would have gotten a call when I got home. The only part the phone call would have resolved is I would have known you had shipped the package...it wouldn't have made the snake come out of the box at the weight you advertised. A customer shouldn't have to pursue the seller to get information that should be provided as a matter of course - I shouldn't have needed to call you to find out you had shipped, or what the tracking number was.
Oh, btw, you never answered my question......would YOU have been happy, or even satisfied, if you received a snake that much smaller than you paid for? I'm really interested in your response.

Brad, you might feel "responsible", but it was Kris that flaked on this transaction...all you did was tell me how your previous experience went. I've had a similar experience, and had pretty much the same response - I contacted the seller, pointed out the problem & said that I felt that it reflected on me, since I was the one that referred the buyer to him. The outcome was a little different, because that seller wasn't at the "I don't care if I screw people over" stage. I appreciate your assistance, thanks for lending a hand.

Originally Posted by Willow

just a tad bit sad when someone leaving the hobby has litrally decided it just isnt worth have any decent moral values...your lucky Harald hasnt asked for a refund

I've stated that I feel a partial refund is in order. Kris just doesn't see any of this as a problem, because he's getting out of reptiles. Funny thing is, the PayPal account isn't even Kris'...but I wonder if his attitude would change if this were to splash back on that person. I'm sure a request for refund would get ignored, but filing for resolution would bring attention to the fact that the account is being used in this manner. I could probably get the account frozen, or maybe even closed...