water / nile

I keep expecting you two to just pull them out and say mine's bigger.....
Enough already - you're arguing about a 2 yr old thread. You've both made your points, regardless of how well/poorly they were received. Let it go.
Tuck, zip, turn, walk away.
Shows over, nothing more to see.

I have over 20 years working with varanids and in my time learned that indeed with proper husbandry some of these averages can be quite easily obtained. Proving various issues with varanids with you is pointless. Maybe if you have kept as many as I have for extended amounts of time you would see the validity. Photos or not.
Your "credit" for being in the pet industry pretty much says it all.

I have agreed with you on all these points several times now. I respect your knowledge and experience with the species, and have claimed my own shortcomings in the varanid realm more than once.

Another point, my 2.5 meter ornate is documented and IF you had any experience with this species you would know. Go look it up.

As said before, I don't have much experience with them. Perhaps I will look it up, since you make it sound like its everywhere.

I find myself in the position, once again, arguing with some ignorant pet-shop guy who probably killed more monitors than he's raised.

Not that you actually care, but not one monitor has died under my care, whether on the job or in my own personal collection.

----

For the record, kids, I have received your points. You have received none of mine, and only ridiculed what you apparently do not understand. It is clear that in both of your little worlds, if it does not pertain to water monitors, it is a waste of time and something to be shunned. It is sad that you have such a narrow view of the world you share with so many others and possess such close-mindedness.

Have a good weekend and (I hope) a nice life!

And just one more thing to add before I leave you two to play among yourselves....

You keep insisting I have brought all this upon because I brought up my job. Ummm...not exactly. YOU guys posted the one photo of questionable validity. Children, you must realize by now that anything you post on the interwebs is open for question, criticism and/or ridicule. It's a harsh world, I know, but it is a reality. You must develop a thicker skin for these things. If its not me questioning one of your precious photographs, then it may be someone else next time. I suppose you'll just tell them they're ignorant, too and you don't care about their job as well. After all, if a person hasn't kept water monitors for 20 years, they couldn't possibly know anything about anything, right? [how's that for sarcasm?]

Originally Posted by SwampDonkey

Im going to go down the list and correct you. Hope you don't mind but its for the benefit of the readers.

1. Captive water monitors commonly exceed 5ft.
2. There are Sumatran water monitors alive in captivity that are 8ft+. Sri lankan animals, even bigger.
3. Longest monitor on record is still the water monitor. Can you cite some info that says otherwise? I wouldn't doubt a big salvatorii could beat that though.
4. V. ornatus is NOT a subspecies of the Nile monitor.

I am going to go down your list and "correct you" since it's evident that you did not read a single bit of my post and actually take it in so here, allow me to put this in more simpler terms for you since you seem to have a difficult time understanding.

1) Yes captive salvators rarely reach lengths above 5 foot. Rarely means it's not common but not unheard of. Yes there are specimens above 5 - 6 foot. I've owned them. But in captivity they RARELY get the proper care to get them to those long 7+ foot lengths because yoyo's buy them and stick them in small cages and feed them once a week etc etc. So yes IN CAPTIVITY they RARELY get above 5 foot. Again, rarely. Never once did I say "never" or "do not" I said rarely.

2) See #1. No sense in repeating myself.

3) The longest monitor recorded was a wild male Komodo featured on the show "How Big Can it Get" and several of the male dragons they caught were 9 foot plus and the largest male was at 10.5 foot. That' sounds like it beats out a salvator that's been dead since the 1940's. And they saw one huge male that they couldn't catch who they were sure was larger. They even stated he was the largest dragon the scientist's had ever seen.

4) Again you need to reread what I said. Here allow me to quote myself for you.

Edit: And another thing. Yes I know it's Varanus ornatus (fully documented in 1942) was not made it's own species until 2003 and yes is considered a nile monitor variant in the pet trade. It is a niloticus but the subspecies name was removed upon the full species status in 03. Most however in the pet trade do not know this and only know the animal as a different color form of niloticus

Did you miss that the first time???????? So yes I know (spelling it out for you once again) that ornatus IS it's own species and has been since 2003. What else I did say is what the pet trade calls the animal and most common people who do not know the full scientific data on the species.

Instead of being so hot blooded and desperate to prove me or others wrong please actually take in what's being said before spouting off at the mouth so I have to repeat myself.

And in my years of varanid owner I have owned monitors that break the mold of what is sadly more then common in keeping today. I've owned four salvadorii with my male being barely three years old and 7.8 foot long and missing 3 inches of tail. My female I had was 7 foot on the mark at two years old. My third salvadorii was a good 6 foot at 1.5 years old. Suspected it was a male by how fast it grew and my fourth at 10 months old and the only time I measured it was hitting almost 6 foot.
I have held a male salvadorii named Rex owned by a gentleman named Kendall who was only 5 years old and 9 foot.

This is just the salvadorii.
I had a black throat female that was 5.75 foot at three years old. She dropped infertile eggs then I sold her to outback reptiles.
I already said /mentioned my one monitor being over five foot at four years old who was supposed to have been "growth stunted (not by me).
I've seen Spot and held him, East Bay Vivarium's big water monitor boy who I am certain is over 7 foot.
My ornatus in the picture was 5 foot 2 and plenty of growing time. I know several keepers with niloticus and ornatus over 5 foot. One person I know has two male niloticus that are over six foot.

I have not once ever said these animals do not, never, don't hit to max size I just said it's rare because that is what is truly the most common in the US. The average buyer /keeper does not and will not care for them and provide for them the care and food needed for them to hit max length and above. Shoot even care sheets now are starting to downsize the max length because it's become the norm. But looking at older care sheet you see the true lengths.

And besides. Why are you so hotblooded over a typo I made in a almost three year old post?????? Seriously.
Even when admitting the error I'd made and corrected you start in and attempt to pick a fight over something else completely. This is my last post on this topic as I feel my points have been made in the above text.

Happy herping all and remember ............... they bite you because they love you.

Originally Posted by TailsWithScales

I am going to go down your list and "correct you" since it's evident that you did not read a single bit of my post and actually take it in so here, allow me to put this in more simpler terms for you since you seem to have a difficult time understanding.

1) Yes captive salvators rarely reach lengths above 5 foot. Rarely means it's not common but not unheard of. Yes there are specimens above 5 - 6 foot. I've owned them. But in captivity they RARELY get the proper care to get them to those long 7+ foot lengths because yoyo's buy them and stick them in small cages and feed them once a week etc etc. So yes IN CAPTIVITY they RARELY get above 5 foot. Again, rarely. Never once did I say "never" or "do not" I said rarely.

2) See #1. No sense in repeating myself.

3) The longest monitor recorded was a wild male Komodo featured on the show "How Big Can it Get" and several of the male dragons they caught were 9 foot plus and the largest male was at 10.5 foot. That' sounds like it beats out a salvator that's been dead since the 1940's. And they saw one huge male that they couldn't catch who they were sure was larger. They even stated he was the largest dragon the scientist's had ever seen.

4) Again you need to reread what I said. Here allow me to quote myself for you.
Did you miss that the first time???????? So yes I know (spelling it out for you once again) that ornatus IS it's own species and has been since 2003. What else I did say is what the pet trade calls the animal and most common people who do not know the full scientific data on the species.

Instead of being so hot blooded and desperate to prove me or others wrong please actually take in what's being said before spouting off at the mouth so I have to repeat myself.

And in my years of varanid owner I have owned monitors that break the mold of what is sadly more then common in keeping today. I've owned four salvadorii with my male being barely three years old and 7.8 foot long and missing 3 inches of tail. My female I had was 7 foot on the mark at two years old. My third salvadorii was a good 6 foot at 1.5 years old. Suspected it was a male by how fast it grew and my fourth at 10 months old and the only time I measured it was hitting almost 6 foot.
I have held a male salvadorii named Rex owned by a gentleman named Kendall who was only 5 years old and 9 foot.

This is just the salvadorii.
I had a black throat female that was 5.75 foot at three years old. She dropped infertile eggs then I sold her to outback reptiles.
I already said /mentioned my one monitor being over five foot at four years old who was supposed to have been "growth stunted (not by me).
I've seen Spot and held him, East Bay Vivarium's big water monitor boy who I am certain is over 7 foot.
My ornatus in the picture was 5 foot 2 and plenty of growing time. I know several keepers with niloticus and ornatus over 5 foot. One person I know has two male niloticus that are over six foot.

I have not once ever said these animals do not, never, don't hit to max size I just said it's rare because that is what is truly the most common in the US. The average buyer /keeper does not and will not care for them and provide for them the care and food needed for them to hit max length and above. Shoot even care sheets now are starting to downsize the max length because it's become the norm. But looking at older care sheet you see the true lengths.

And besides. Why are you so hotblooded over a typo I made in a almost three year old post?????? Seriously.
Even when admitting the error I'd made and corrected you start in and attempt to pick a fight over something else completely. This is my last post on this topic as I feel my points have been made in the above text.

Happy herping all and remember ............... they bite you because they love you.

Uh huh. Well anyways, I corrected your post, sorry if that bugs you. Good info and proper husbandry trumps peoples feelings in my opinion.