Whats up with pay-pal inquires??

Hey just wanted to know why there are so many people against charging extra or pya-pal payments? just wondering....

Thanx

Winston

Winston,

First, please allow me to be the first to apologize here (will post a note to the other thread directing others here) for allowing myself to be drawn into this particular topic in a forum which is supposed to be reserved for the sale/purchase of snakes. It should have come here or to the General Business section.

None of my remarks were directed at you personally, though I am afraid that they were probably taken that way. My last statement on the other thread was an opinion about anyone who would do this. PayPal and other credit card companies do their best to write their terms of service so that they are covered legally in all 50 states and yet remain readable by the general public. Can a person of higher intelligence find loop-holes in a particular TOS? I believe so. However, I readily admit that I am no legal eagle or someone who generally looks for such loopholes. In fact my previous example there was a reflection and simple twist on a thought you had begun earlier.

My take on it is that it is just wrong and against PayPal's original TOS as it is actually intended. Perhaps it is not written as well as it could/should be, but I believe (again, my opinion) that the extra charge you suggest is asking for possible trouble somewhere in the future.

David Jobes

Hey David I mean I understand some fo ya'll point of view on this. I guess I would just raise my prices on my animal just a little bit so it would satifiy everyone

Thanx

Winston

Many people are against it because it is unethical, and often illegal. In essence, if you add a surcharge for one type of payment over another, you are in essence penalizing a customer for paying via that method.

The legal considerations can come back to bite you in the @ss, too. If I remember correctly, Winston, you live in Florida? Adding that 3% is illegal in Florida.

Consumer protection is a hot topic for many Attorney Generals . If your customer is in CA, for instance, they can recoup three times the amount of the illegal overcharge.

Looking at this from a sellers point of view with paypal a sell isn't really a final sell even after the warranty has expired. The buyer can make claims and have the paypal monies refunded while the seller has little or no recourse to stop the refund. Where as with check, money orders, or cash. Its up to the seller and his reputation if he decides to extend the warrany and/or exchange products and/or decide that the product has been sold and its yours now. So from the sellers point of view it seems like they would prefer to charge more for a paypal transaction as a form of insurance for the 1 deal in a hundred he ends up losing on because paypal refunded the customers money and is now drawing those funds back out of the sellers account. I understand that it is unethical to charge more for a paypal transaction but is it ethical to offer a cash (check or MO) discount.
Looking at it from the buyers point of view when paying by cash he is losing the control of the transaction (paypals influence) and he should get a discount for his loss of the "paypal guarentee".

I'm not meaning to be shadey or trying to "skirt" the law or ethics just appears to me I'm purchasing with more confidence with paypal (and their influence) and the seller should be rembursed for the greater possibility of loss. If it is noted that a seller offers a 5% discount for cash transactions is this ethical.

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but when I buy with paypal or credit card I feel more protected than a purchase with cash. Should I pay extra for this protection? Ask the guy in the BOI that just lost his money to a idiot over the mole kings. He currently has no snake or no money and it was paypal that screwed him.

Respectfully

The buyer can make claims and have the paypal monies refunded while the seller has little or no recourse to stop the refund....Ask the guy in the BOI that just lost his money to a idiot over the mole kings. He currently has no snake or no money and it was paypal that screwed him.

This is why I always wait until the money has cleared from the Paypal account to my bank account that I set up just for Paypal use only.

Once the money is in my bank account it is mine and Paypal cant touch it, in theory. I go one step further with protecting my money from Paypal. Once it hits my bank account I immediately transfer it to my real banking account. Gotta love on-line banking. So if for some reason Paypal tries to draw it out on me, it can't because nothing is in the account directly linked to Paypal. NEVER, EVER under any circumstances leave money in your Paypal account or any account linked to it. And NEVER, EVER ship until it is securely in your private account unless it is someone you trust totally.

Should a customer file a complaint or Paypal messes up and tries to draw from your account, it will get a reply of Non-Sufficient Funds. The seller is in control at that point and Paypal can't do squat but freeze your Paypal account with no money in it. That gives you, the seller, more control on how to remedy any problems should one arise.

I also opened up a credit card account just for my Paypal account. I had the Credit Card company set a limit of $100, which was the smallest amount they could or would go. So if some reason they tried to go that route, I am only out $100 and the Credit Card Company will stop payment if I need to. Seems like a long way to go to protect my money. But when you deal in animals that range from $400 to $4000 and sometimes more, its well worth the extra steps.

Should I make a payment as a buyer, I simply transfer money to my bank account that is linked to my Paypal account and send funds to whom ever. It is a common misconception by many sellers, that people who use Paypal are only paying via a Credit Card. That is not always the case.

This is how I do it and it has worked well for me. Hope it helps you guys out as well.

Tim,
Agreed you method looks like it will work to keep "your" money out of paypals hands but I don't think in the long run paypal will just forget the fact that they have refunded money to someone and not gotten it back from you. I believe that they may attempt to influence your overall credit rating (not fair understandably). Its bad when an ethical seller has to go thru all this transferring and "hiding" funds just to sell a good product at a fair price.

My main question is "Is it ethical to offer a cash discount as a way of influencing a method of payment?". Also is it legal, and is it advantageous to do so?

Respectfully,

Tim.... in the short-run, your method WILL secure your money.... ONCE!! But, in the long-run.... If something DOES go wrong with PayPal and they try to take it from your account and there's nothing there?? What do you think is going to happen the next time someone wants to send you a PayPal??? You don't really think YOU'RE going to get it, do you?? I'm SURE they will have already closed your account for WITHDRAWALS, but, they will ALWAYS leave it open for DEPOSITS!!!
You might want to think about that??
And, NO.... I don't know the answer, except, try not to piss off your customers???.... lmao

....Neil

Easy fix Neil
Close that account and start a new one with new ISP, bank account and Credit Card. But you guys are assuming that there will be no resolution to a refund claim. Should one be filed against me. If its a legitimit claim, no problems, I will resolve it. But a fake one will get a good fight on my end.

After reading the TOS again, just for kicks, one of the 2 things they will ding you for is not shipping. Follow their recommended shipping guidelines and in theory you will be untouchable.

The second is Credit Card Fraud. Someone else paying with a bogus card. That's why you must NEVER, EVER ship until it is cleared and secure.

Here is the real kick in the pants. Even when you go the next step with them as a buyer and purchase their Guarantee it has some exclusions.
.

Requirements for Honoring Reimbursement Requests. These requirements will determine if reimbursement requests can be honored under the Money Back Guarantee program:


Pre-filing resolution effort. Prior to filing a reimbursement request, the buyer must attempt to contact the seller and to make a good-faith effort to seek resolution directly with him or her.


Reimbursement request completion. Reimbursement requests must be complete and on time, as specified in section iv below.


Specific item exclusions. Items or situations which fit any of the following exclusions are not eligible for protection under the Guarantee:


Items that have been damaged by the buyer


Apparel items that have been worn or washed


Media products such as DVDs, CDs, video and audio cassette tapes, video games and other software, etc.s


Stored value cards (e.g. phone cards, gift cards, etc.) of any kind


Hazardous materials, including but not limited to chemicals, explosives, flammables, poisons, and gases


Firearms, explosives, or ammunition of any sort including but not limited to guns, rifles, and bombs


Illegal/contraband goods


Animals, plants, or any parts thereof


Motorized vehicles of any kind, including but not limited to automobiles

And this is only part of the list of exclusions.